|
Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2003 1:33:12 GMT -5
I've spent the last hour and a half reading through many of the previous posts in these forums, but decided I needed to post my own questions. First off, I want to apologize for the length of this message. I wanted to get as much info in as possible right from the start.
My betta, Fred, is about two years old and for the last four weeks has eaten a total of about seven Betta Bio-Gold pellets. (Yes, you read that correctly.) I'm not sure what else to do, but he seems to be going down hill, as would be expected after not eating any more than that.
He's had (relatively) brief periods of time in the past where he'd stop eating and for a while had a mild case of fin rot which a treatment of BettaMax corrected. Each time he'd stop eating for a few days, a BettaMax treatment would perk him right up and he'd be back to his normal self in about two days.
I've been feeding him Betta Bio-Gold pellets for about the last eight months without problems. He used to eat between six and eight pellets a day, but very suddenly stopped eating. Now, in the last three days, he's been floating almost motionless at the very top of the water at the edge of the bowl.
He has no swelling that I can see, no indication of fungus, fin rot, or other common ailments. He just simply won't eat. For the first couple weeks of this, he'd at least make an effort to lunge at the food pellets, but would almost always miss and never try again. Now, he doesn't even make an attempt to get them. Last week I bought a little bottle of Betta Bites, which are much smaller than the Bio-Gold pellets and he ate them right up for about two days, but now ignores them, as well.
I had been using gallon jugs of sodium-free drinking water and took a sample to the local aquarium store for testing. The guy there was very shocked by the pH level and suggested that I switch to regular tap water treated with a dechlorinator, which I've been doing for the last two weeks. I do a partial (about 25%-50%) water change three times per week. I don't yet have a pH test kit of my own, so I don't know what my tap water's levels are. I always let the water in the bowl and the fresh water reach the same temperature (measured with a thermometer). I also add a few drops of Stress Coat to the water during each change.
Fred's water fluctuates between 72 and 75 degrees throughout the day, due to the air conditioning settings used by other members of the household, which I know is much cooler than bettas prefer. I moved him to a more stable environment yesterday, where his water will remain closer to 76 degrees all day. Without a heater, however, I am unable to get it any warmer than that in this house, and I can't figure out a way to get a low-wattage lamp close enough to the bowl to warm it.
I have noticed that he seems slightly more active now that the water is a bit warmer, but he still refuses to eat anything. I even tried frozen brine shrimp, but they sank to the bottom of the bowl immediately. He followed them down all the way, but once they hit the bottom, he floated back to the top and never made an attempt to eat them. I sucked them out of the bowl a minute or two later.
When he does break the surface of the water for air, he does so in what I can only describe as frenzied gasps, where he will dart across the surface of the water, often two to three times in a row. After this, he returns to his spot at the top of the water against the side of the bowl, and remains motionless for long periods of time.
I have one artificial plant in the bowl, and colored glass marble-like things in the bottom. I've read in other threads tonight that adding aquarium salt to the water is often beneficial, but I'm having trouble diagnosing what is wrong with him, so I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do.
Does anyone have any idea what his problem is based on my description? I know I've likely waited too long to fix this. I am doing another BettaMax treatment now, and continue to drop a Bio-Gold or Betta Bite pellet into the water to see if he'll eat.
I really hate to see him like this because he used to be such an active, happy betta. He'd swim to the edge of the bowl whenever I walked in the room, swim over and under the leaves of the plant for minutes at a time, etc. Now he just floats at the top of the water for hours and hours on end, and has eaten one day's worth of food in four weeks.
I'd really appreciate any ideas or suggestions anybody can offer.
Thank you very much,
--Dave
|
|
AmberD
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 157
|
Post by AmberD on Aug 18, 2003 21:21:41 GMT -5
Dave,
It sounds like you've taken wonderful care of your betta, and you sound very concerned about him.
Unfortunately, it sounds as if your fish is getting old. If you've had him for 2 years, then he could be as much as 3 years old, because they tend to be 8-12 months old when they're sent to the store (for the purpose of having long fins). Average betta lifespans tend to range 2-3 years old. Sometimes they can live longer, but if they don't, it's not a bad reflection on the owner, it's just the sad fact of the stressful life these creatures live.
You're doing a great job. Keeping him warm and comfortable is the best thing you can do for him. If the plant you have in the bowl has soft, borad leaves that he can lean against/lay one near the surface, you may want to rest it up against the side of the bowl so he can snuggle up in there with his mouth just near the surface, so he can breathe easier.
What you've described really does sound like old age to me. I've begun noticing that the lethargy is often preceded by a bout of fin rot, I think just as the immune system is lowering and his whole body is becoming more fragile.
We can hope that I'm wrong, but you may want to prepare yourself if I'm not. I'm very sorry. One of my females is on her deathbed right now, so I can sympathize.
Amber
|
|
|
Post by Rachel - old on Aug 18, 2003 21:36:40 GMT -5
Hi Dave,
I really have to say that I'm not quite sure what advice to give on this one. Usually when a betta is not eating there may be other physical signs or symptoms that can be seen. Unless they have just been under a lot of stress, when you first bring them home for example. I have never heard of them eating such few pellets in such a long period of time though.
It was a good idea to move his tank to a warmer area. As you said, you can slightly notice the difference in energy. How large is his tank?
When he goes for air, does he dart around frantically? Does it look as though he is trying to rub himself against anything in the tank? Does he have any white dots or a gold dusting of color on his body that you can see if you shine a flashlight on him?
Aquarium salt can always be a good thing to add to the water as a preventative against disease. You can choose to add it gradually over water changes until you reach 1/2 teaspoon per gallon when healthy or up to 1 teaspoon when ill. It helps to reduce stress, add electrolytes and improve gill function.
Does it seem as though he is having problems reaching the surface for air? If so, I might suggest lowering the water level so it is more comfortable for him.
You said that Fred is 2 years old. Have you had him that long? Often times bettas can be around a year old before they are available at pet stores. I'm wondering if he is approaching old age and just isn't as lively as he used to be. I really don't know how to explain the lack of eating though. Sorry that I am unable to give you more helpful advice.. I hope you are able to figure this out!
|
|
|
Post by Rachel - old on Aug 18, 2003 21:41:22 GMT -5
It took me so long to post that Amber snuck in there before me. I guess it probably is just that Fred is getting old. I'm very sorry if that is the case, but I would try to make the most of the time he has left.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2003 22:59:23 GMT -5
Well, I'd hate for that to be the case, but if it is, I'll do my best to make him comfortable. I'd hate to lose another pet right now though... I had to have my nineteen year old cat put to sleep two weeks ago. Old age really hit her hard with kidney failure and arthritis. It was really hard to watch her go down hill so fast during her last year, but I did everything I could to make her as comfortable as possible. It's going to be a really long time before I walk through the house and don't look down to see if she's walking behind me. Anyway, back to Fred... his energy level has increased by several orders of magnitude since moving him to the warmer room. He's swimming about the bowl more and not staying at the top quite as much. He still will not eat, however, which concerns me a great deal. His bowl is a half gallon size. Round on the sides and flat on the front and back. I'm sure you've seen the type I'm talking about. I went to the aquarium store this afternoon after finishing a service call and picked up a small carton of aquarium salt and a water test kit. I can't get a good read on the pH of his current water because the Betta Max treatment gives the water a blue-green hue similar to that of the pH chart. Our tap water has a neutral pH, which kinda surprises me. The ammonia level in Fred's current water, however, is quite high. I've got a fresh gallon of treated tap water with a half teaspoon of the new aquarium salt added sitting next to the bowl to match its temperature. The jug is still a couple degrees warmer than what's in the bowl, so I may just let it sit overnight. I'm planning to do a 50% water change hoping that will lower the ammonia levels significantly. I'll then do a 25% change the next night. Fred has no spotting or discoloration that I can see, and his fins are not torn or thin. The edges of the fins do seem "folded" over a bit, though not badly. He does not seem to have any difficulty getting from the top to the bottom of the bowl. Yes, sometimes when he comes up for air, he'll dart around the surface of the water frantically. He's doing that less today, however, so maybe that's a good sign. I just wish he'd eat something! Thanks for your help. I really appreciate the insights! -- Dave
|
|
|
Post by supersixone on Aug 18, 2003 23:42:03 GMT -5
the only thing i can help with is the light...
i have one of those desk lamps they market to kids going away for college, with a flexible, positionable neck. i put a low wattage light bulb in it, and i can position it as close or as far from my fishy's tank as i need, to keep his water a nice temperature.
|
|
|
Post by Betta MVP on Aug 19, 2003 2:33:27 GMT -5
If you have him in a half gallon bowl, you really need to be changing his water 100% twice a week and cleaning everything in hot tap water. Ammonia and nitrites will build up quickly, especially if you only do partial water changes. Do you have ammonia readings right out of the tap? Do you have a nitrite test kit?
When you keep your betta in an uncycled bowl, you really should add something like Amquel along with your regular tap water conditioner to keep ammonia levels under control. Prolonged exposure to ammonia and nitrites could explain his trouble.
If he is lethargic, has clamped fins, darts around, and/or appears to be panting, these are all signs of nitrite poisoning. If he is getting nitrite poisoning, the Bettamax would help him since it contains Methylene blue which is what you should use for this. But if he is exposed to high nitrites after his meds, then he will keep on getting sick time after time.
I would do a 100% water change and rinse his bowl and all contents with hot water, this should bring his ammonia down to zero unless you have ammonia straight from the tap. Then add his Bettamax to the bowl and every time you add a new dose, give him a complete water change first.
|
|
|
Post by heymom1 on Aug 19, 2003 8:42:45 GMT -5
Just saw your post about your kitty-cat...We lost our cat of about the same age several years ago to the same thing - kidney failure. She died at home, with all of us here. It was cat hospice...I don't know if your vet told you this, but ours said that cats are in no pain as their kidneys fail...It's so hard to watch them decline though. As far as your fishie...Someone else here just lost a fish to intestinal blockage. I wonder if that's the problem with your fish as well. I don't know if there's any treatment for that. I don't know if it starts with constipation or can be cured with a bit of pea...I'm a newbie on this board, but I think those Bio-Gold pellets should be taken off the shelf. I have experienced problems with them and have read many posts about this food and constipation. We thought our fish was history and my kids were freaking out - turned out he just needed to clear out that junk!
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 19, 2003 11:58:25 GMT -5
... Do you have ammonia readings right out of the tap? Do you have a nitrite test kit? There is no ammonia in the tap water and actually, his water isn't registering any nitrites according to my test kit. As you say, however, that could be due to the BettaMax. The ammonia levels are lower than before the 50% change last night, but are still a bit high. ... I would do a 100% water change and rinse his bowl and all contents with hot water ... Then add his Bettamax to the bowl and every time you add a new dose, give him a complete water change first. I thought 100% water changes were more stressful to bettas than partial changes because the water conditions change so suddenly. He'd be going from a relatively high ammonia level to zero. While I'd think that would be refreshing for him, I've also gathered that it causes the body some amount of stress. -- Dave
|
|
|
Post by Betta MVP on Aug 19, 2003 12:17:48 GMT -5
That's good news that there are no nitrite readings. The Meth blue is a good medication for nitrite poisoning, but it doesn't get rid of nitrites.
If you condition his water and let it sit overnight and it is the same temp as the water he is in, it won't be too stressful for him. The ammonia is stressful and going from high ammonia to zero does not need to be done gradually.
If you do a 100% water change, finish the round of Bettamax, and change your cleaning schedule to 100% cleaning twice a week, you should notice a big improvement in him. Also, f you get something for ammonia like Amquel or Ammolock to use along with your water conditioner, this will help keep the ammonia level almost nonexistant.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 20, 2003 13:30:16 GMT -5
If you do a 100% water change, finish the round of Bettamax, and change your cleaning schedule to 100% cleaning twice a week, you should notice a big improvement in him. ... Well, Fred is in a fresh bowl of water after a 100% change last night. This water also has a half teaspoon of aquarium salt added, but no BettaMax this time. (The previous treatment was the end of that cycle.) His energy level has dramatically improved since being moved to the warmer room and he seems a little better after the water changes over the last day or two. He has made attempts to eat, but never quites gets a pellet -- or even half a pellet -- down. He's gotten three of them in his mouth, swims around the bowl frantically with it partially sticking out of his mouth, and eventually just spits it out. I've tried Bio-Gold pellets, Betta Bites, and even a couple of the flakes that came as "free" samples in the water testing kit. He completely ignores the Betta Bites and usually ignores the flakes. The Bio-Gold pellets are the only thing he even makes an attempt to eat, but never swallows them. Once they float back to the surface, he'll sometimes sit perfectly motionless in the water staring at them, but eventually swims away, leaving them to get bloated and nasty. I don't know what else to do at this point. He can't go on without food for much longer, though he doesn't seem to be suffering at all as far as I can tell. As I type this, he's swimming around the bowl in and around the leaves of his plants. The water temp is 78.3, and there are no detectable traces of ammonia or nitrites. (Although since the water was just changed yesterday, I suppose that's to be expected.) Anything else I could try? The last time he stopped eatign for a week or so, I tried frozen brine shrimp, which immediately sunk (sank?) to the bottom and got lost in the marbles. I left the marbles out after yesterday's water change, so if I go buy some more of this, maybe he'll actually be able to eat it off the bottom of the bowl. Does this sound like an illness or parasites of some sort? As I said in my original post, he has no signs of fungus, no swelling anywhere, no raised scales or bulging eyes. He just seems unable to eat. Suggestions? Thank you all! -- Dave
|
|
|
Post by Betta MVP on Aug 20, 2003 16:11:02 GMT -5
How long has it been since he last ate something? I've seen bettas go for over a month without eating before and they didn't starve. Have you seen any poo in his bowl or has he had long stringy poo hanging from his body? If he stops eating every once in a while and then starts again, he could be getting constipated, especially since you say he has no other signs of illness. Another symptom of constipation is spitting out food. Try feeding him tiny bits of a thawed, peeled frozen pea if he will eat it. If he won't eat it, put a few grains of epsom salts in his water which has a mild laxative effect. Fasting for a few days helps too but it sounds like he has already done this himself.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 20, 2003 19:29:50 GMT -5
How long has it been since he last ate something? ... Have you seen any poo in his bowl ... Try feeding him tiny bits of a thawed, peeled frozen pea if he will eat it. If he won't eat it, put a few grains of epsom salts in his water which has a mild laxative effect. ... It's been nearly two full weeks since he's actually eaten anything and that was just a single Betta Bio-Gold pellet. There has been no solid waste of any kind in his bowl in at least three weeks. I'll give the pea a try tonight. Assuming he eats it, is there any length of time I should expect it to have some effect? Also, is the epsom salt okay to mix with aquarium salt? Thanks! -- Dave
|
|
|
Post by heymom1 on Aug 20, 2003 19:56:54 GMT -5
He might just be a fussy guy - if it were me, and he didn't appear sick at all, I'd go to the closest fish store and get every type of food that is safe for bettas and try them one by one. One of our fish wouldn't eat the food we were feeding the others, and the pet store said they were feeding the Betta Bites, so we bought those and he gulped them down. If you can ask what he was eating in the fish store, try that, but otherwise just buy whatever the fish store has that bettas can eat. Maybe he just got good and sick of the Bio-Gold (I think this food isn't safe anyway). Have you tried the dried bloodworms? Mine just love them. They can't have them all the time, as they are too rich, but man! do they attack them when they do get a treat.
Then again, maybe he is just an old fishie...elderly people don't eat very well either. Hope he improves soon!
|
|
|
Post by Betta MVP on Aug 20, 2003 21:08:28 GMT -5
I would get rid of the aquarium salt while using the epsom salts and put it back in once he is better. If he eats some of the pea, just give him a little bit tonight and some tomorrow and then see if he has some poo in his bowl. I wouldn't attempt to feed him anything else until he does go.
Once he starts eating again, I would cut back a little bit on what you feed him, say about 2 Bio-Gold pellets twice per day and vary his diet with some of the other food you bought for him. Fasting one day per week is also recommended by some to prevent constipation.
Keep us posted. I hope he gets better soon!
|
|