Important Questions About My Betta's

[newbetaowner]

Hello all.

These questions might not seem important, but they're important to me because I love my betta and want to make sure everything is okay.

BACKGROUND/INFO:

I've had this betta for about 2.5 months, he spent that entire time in a small bowl. I decided to get him a larger aquarium. I got him a 5.5 gallon tank, while purchasing it a woman at the pet store said I could get a female betta to put in there with him (because I was worried he'd be lonely). They didn't have any at the time, so I went to another store, and the woman there suggested getting two so he didn't pick on one more than the other...

So, I ended up getting two, put the bag with the females in the aquarium for 20 minutes for the water temp, and my male betta flared up near the bag. I HAD NEVER SEEN HIM DO THAT BEFORE, so I was a bit worried. After introducing them to the tank, there was little to no activity for about 30 minutes, but then he would flare up and scare away one of the females whenever she was near the surface, and at random times when she was close by. The other female spent the entire time laying on the bottom of the tank, only to surface SOMETIMES to get air, then she'd promptly go back down and stay there, floating more than swimming. The male has never bothered her. Sometimes she floats at an angle. It seems like she's hiding. The other female is very active by comparison.

There are plenty of places to hide in the tank.

He's only been in the bigger tank for 1 day before I put in the females.

I feed him BettaMin Tropical Medley.

In case things get out of hand, I have his old bowl ready.

MY QUESTIONS:

-I've read lots of materials, and even purchased a book, but can't find answers to these simple questions.

1) I don't want them to mate, how can I help discourage it?

2) How long will it take until I don't have to worry that he'll hurt either of the females?

3) Should I be worried about the VERY LETHARGIC female?

4) What does floating at an agle mean?

5) Does flaring ALWAYS mean aggression? What else can it mean. (Until I saw him do it, I had no idea Betta's did that)

6) Because he keeps chasing them away from the surface, how will they get to the food?

7) What other things should I watch out for?

I know these might seem like very basic questions, but I've inadvertently jumped ahead of myself by getting these females, because of the recomendations of someone at the pet store. So any help would be very appreciated.

Thanks,

Phill

PS: What kind of pump/filtration system would you recommend?

[amanichen]

Most of your questions are really irrelevant. Males and females shouldn't be kept together other than for breeding purposes. I'd separate them, but leave them in view of one another if you're worried they aren't getting enough stimulation.

[newbetaowner]

I guess it was pretty wrong of them to recommend me to have a female, without even mentioning breeding.

So than what would you recommend?

I don't want him to be alone, so what other fish could I put in there with him?

I read somewhere that they won't mate in the presense of other kinds of fish. Is that true? If so, would that be a viable solution?

I don't want to get another aquarium for the two females, That wasn't the point. I'm new at this and only want to worry about one set of fish.

[abm]

Males and females really can't live together....I've read and heard many stories of it working for a while, but their instincts will eventually take over and they will fight/harm/kill each other. They are called fighting fish for a reason.

You could try to give the females to someone else, or you could try to take them back to the store, or you could get another tank for them or for your male. I keep 5 males, all in separate tanks but all in view of another tank. I don't find it's a big bother to deal with more than one tank, but it is a responsibility.

And, you've learned an important lesson: Pet store employees RARELY give good betta advice .

[newbetaowner]

Thanks for your replies.

I've been spending some time doing more research, which has lead me to decide to not keep the male and two females together.

However, after putting my male in the big tank, I don't want to put him back in a small tank.

I'm a student, and don't have a lot of money. I've already spent a good bit of money on these fish and the new tank; I also don't have the room for another tank.

I'm not sure if I should return the females, or would it be acceptable/preferable to separate the tank?

This still leaves the issue of having the male be alone. I want him to have some friends. Any recommendations?

Your help is VERY appreciated.

Thanks,

Phill

[accountingchick]

Phil, I would not be concerned about your male betta being alone. A lot of people have a misconception about this fish and assume that they have to have companionship, well they don't. If they have places to explore in their tank and are healthy, then they are fine. I have been raising bettas by themselves for over seventeen years now and they never got sad, sick, or died from loneliness. I have tried several times to put bettas with other fish or snails and it has never worked. Since you are a little short on funds, I would do what amanichen and abm suggested take the females out of the tank asap and put them in a seperate container from the male, then either give them to someone else or return them to the pet store where they came from and maybe when you have more funds then you can buy another tank setup and get either females or another male and put their tank beside the male that you currently have. I am sorry that you were deceived by the pet store that you bought them from, but that happens a lot of the time. Pet store employees usually do not have a clue.

[abm]

Hi, I saw your "dead female" post also....I'm sorry.

About the female and male and funds....I'm not clear on how long you've had the females, but you may be able to take both girls back to the store, esp. if the one who may have died isn't visibly injured - she may have been sick to begin with.

You can buy a 2-3 gallon tank at many petstores for about $10. This of course doesn't include filter, pump etc. but I don't use those, and if you're truly short on funds but want to keep both fish safely, this might work for you. You would have to do 100% water changes weekly but you could save up to buy the filter etc. and then cycle the tank later.

Or, you could move the male or female into the bowl temporarily. Bottom line is, they've GOT to be separated. They might not attack today, or tomorrow, or next week - but it WILL happen.

[newbetaowner]

Thank you everyone so much for your help.

About the funds, I actually did purchase a filter. A powered filter, but it was missing its activated carbon instert, so I was going to the store tomorrow anyway to exchange it. The one I purchased is this one:



Is this a suitable filter? Are powered filters that produce lots of bubbles better?

I just got the females today. This entire ordeal has taken place in about 5 hours, the entire time I've been at my desk researching and watching the fish, but I guess I wasn't watching enough.

She doesn't seem injured, and she was extremely lethargic when she was first introduced to the tank. The male never chased this fish (as far as I saw) just the other one, and she's still fine.

Do you think the live female is at risk? She is alone in the tank, and the male is in his old bowl.

** As an aside, it was extremely moving to see her try and revive the dead fish. She wasn't being aggressive or harsh, she gently fluttered next to her and poked her to try and get her to move... I've never had fish before, and I'm starting to understand what the attraction is. The male was actually given to me as a gift.

I'm going to try and learn more about how to keep my single male betta happy and energetic.

Again, thank you so much for your help. I'm very glad these forums exist. You're all doing a wonderful service for people like me.

With much appreciation,

Phill

PS: Do you recommend cleaning out the tank and starting fresh?

[abm]

Phill,
I'm far from an expert. Just a betta lover, learning as I go along .
I can't guide you on the filter. I have 5 unfiltered, uncycled tanks and I do 60-80% water changes every 7-10 days and a full change every 3 weeks or so, depending on my water tests. However, in my reading/studying here and elsewhere, what I've gleaned is that any properly setup filter system works just fine for bettas, provided you make sure the flow is not too strong (either intake or outflow) - their long fins put them at risk for getting caught in the turbulence.
You said you've had your male for 2.5 months. So I assume you're familiar with the proper water parameters, conditioners etc. to keep him healthy and that you've been doing full water changes on the small bowl he's been in. If it were me, I would take the dead female back to the store. If you want to keep her, in a separate tank, the other female is probably fine. I would clean out the tank the female died in...may be overkill, but I'm sure you would rather be safe than sorry.
As accountingchick says, male bettas really do live just fine by themselves. It's odd to us humans, but it's the way they're made....mine seem to enjoy seeing other fish, but in other tanks I have my guys set up in pairs, mostly...they seem to be "friends", although I'm anthropomorphizing there. When I move the tanks around so that they are near different fish, though, they do behave differently. They enjoy interacting with us - if you think your male (or female) is bored, run your finger about 1/2" deep into their tank water and let them "catch" you...or use a pen, or switch their thermometer to a different spot in the tank. Any change is stimulating - have fun with your pets !

[newbetaowner]

Thanks abm.

Actually, my male betta was not very well taken care of (because of ignorance more than anything). The person who gave it to me told me how to care for him, but what I've learned today has shown me that I should have been far more careful and done far more maintenance and water changes.

My betta looks nothing like the pictures I've been seeing today, and I am beginning to worry about him.

You can see some pictures of him here: (Please let me know what you think.)

Pictures of My Pet Betta

My plan so far is to keep him in the small bowl he's in now for a week, and treat him with BettaFix Remedy and aquarium salts, and to feed him some frozen bloodworms (maybe every other day) in addition to his normal flakes. In the meantime, I will clean his tank, get the filter going, keep salt in the big tank, and learn about cycling. Then after the week, put him back in the large tank. How does that sound?

Thanks,

Phill

[Rachel]

newbetaowner said:

My plan so far is to keep him in the small bowl he's in now for a week, and treat him with BettaFix Remedy and aquarium salts, and to feed him some frozen bloodworms (maybe every other day) in addition to his normal flakes. In the meantime, I will clean his tank, get the filter going, keep salt in the big tank, and learn about cycling. Then after the week, put him back in the large tank. How does that sound?

That sounds like a good plan...researching about their proper care is an important step. Keeping bettas warm enough since they're tropical fish is a key to keeping them healthy as well (78-80 degrees F).

I have the Aquaclear 20 filter in a 5.5 gallon and I find it to be a bit strong for a betta, even on the lowest setting. To prevent a betta from being sucked into the intake I use a custom made foam block (Fish Saver) and to lessen the current from the output I have floating plants at the top of the tank.

[newbetaowner]

Thanks.

I don't have floating plants, and don't think I'm ready for it yet, so I'm going to see if I can find a smaller power filter instead.

Phill

[Minaku]

Phil, I use an Azoo mini palm filter, which you can find at Drs. Foster and Smith online. I got it while it was on sale, so it cost me 5 bucks, but it shouldn't cost more than a few dollars than that. Also, the filter replacements are very cheap.

I bought my master test kit from Animal World Network, as well as my Hagen 25W mini-compact submersible heater. You really can't beat these prices. And lastly, I bought a large thermometer from PetSmart.

The filter has different settings, and the low setting is indeed very low. Even so, I purchased tall plants that would break the surface of the water and placed them at different locations to break up the current.

Don't forget a tank lid to go with your new tank! Bettas are jumpers. When you put the filter in your tank will begin to cycle within a week, but I'll wait on that until you've got your situation with your male and females settled.

By the way, with good food, warm water, a large home, things to play in and sleep on, and loving care, your betta will, in time, look like all the other healthy and happy betta pictures on this site.

[newbetaowner]

Thanks for your post Minaku, but I live in Canada and can't get those things online... I'll check local stores and other online retailers that ship to Canada. Do you know of any? I've already checked eBay and what I could find on Google. I'm pretty sure I can get that heater at a local store and some test kits.

I'm impressed that the Azoo filter does all 3 kinds of filtering. That's exactly the kind of filter I'm looking for, at the right size.

I'm off to the store now to return the fish and get some new supplies.

Thanks,

Phill

[newbetaowner]

Minaku,

Will the Azoo Palm Filter allow the tank to cycle? I know it says that it has biological filtering, but since you have to completely replace the entire filter each month, how will the bacteria stick around?

Thanks,

Phill