Actually tail biting is fairly rare but

[starlight]

water quality issues are fairly common...especially among newcomers.

Recently I've read a number of posts in which tail biting is mentioned as the culprit in tail damage. I've had quite a few bettas and I've only observed one case of tail biting (Candy). Some think a tail biting betta might be unhappy or frustrated. Candy is one of the happiest bettas that I've ever owned. He's very active patrolling his planted, cycled, 2-gallon tank. When he gets tuckered out, you can find him relaxing on the leaf of a large Java Fern. Candy regards the plant as his couch. It also allows Candy to casually turn around and take a huge whack out of his tail. What a happy betta!

Two weeks ago my club had a betta show. There were over 300 bettas entered, some came as far away as Thailand. The club is responsible for removing the betta from it's small shipping bag and placing the betta in a container of water. Two days later, the betta is bagged either for auction or shipped back to the owner. You get to see a lot of things by observing 300 bettas for a weekend. Unfortunately, there's always a few doas and a betta that passes away after he's transferred to the new tank and water.

The bettas were all placed in their show containers and carded from each other's view Friday night. I was the first in the show hall on Saturday, the first day of the show. I reviewed the entire show entries before anyone had arrived. I was there so early that the bettas were just waking up in the morning light. I got a chance to examine each betta twice all by myself. I immediately noticed 5-6 males who had blown their tail due to finrot in travel. All the males with blown tails were half moons or super deltas with long fins. Most of the bettas seemed fairly happy. There were some that did not appear happy but they didn't bite their tails. Of the 300 bettas, I did not observe one biting it's tail.

I consider tail-biting fairly rare in bettas. Water quality issues including high ammo, high nitrites, inproper ph and bacterial problems; unfortunately are all too commonplace. Bettas are often kept at too-low temperatures by newcomers. This stresses the betta and weakens his slime coat. That makes him more vulnerable to bacteria. A betta's long fins are often the first line of bacterial attack. Shorter finned bettas have less fin rot problems.

Even if it really is observed tail biting, it still must be treated as a case of fin rot. The key is to improve water quality, nutrition, living conditions and sometimes medications are needed.

[Lucy]

Thanks! Today, I was completely shocked to turn aroung and see Bailey my male VT take a cunnk out of his tail. I'm doing your recommended treatments and hopefully it will stop.

[starlight]

I am bumping this old thread for the benefit of newcomers.

I have become tired of people thinking that their betta is a tail biter without observing him biting his tail. I first brought this to member's attention in the fall of 2004. Since then I've read dozens of posts where tail biting has been mentioned. In only a few cases was it observed.

I have quite a few friends that are professional betta breeders. I always invite them to HB to participate. They usually drop in as guests but don't have the time to participate.

I'm proud of my activities as a moderator on HB. At my Betta Club's last meeting (Big Apple Betta Breeders IBC) some friends were talking about betta message boards. An older couple who breed bettas and show guppies mentioned that they visited HB and while they like my approach they said, "what the hell is going on there with the tail biting nonsense!!" "When betta fry lose ventrals due to bacteria in the water (usually do to overfeeding microworms ) is someone going to tell me that they are somehow biting their ventrals?"

I told them I had discussed this with Rachel and posted about it back in Sept '04. I felt that people were taking the easy way out. It was never their fault and it wasn't because of water parameters being out of whack. "He may be a tail biter" It wasn't because I missed a water change or my pH had risen to 7.8.

Here's a simple rule. If you haven't observed your betta biting it's tail, please don't post that you think he's a tail biter. This is how internet rumors get started. Frayed red or black edges are usually the result of bacteria or the presence of ammonia in the water. The presence of any ammonia in the water is not acceptable since it stresses the betta. The recommended pH for bettas is 7.0. Test your water first. High or low pH values can cause a betta's tail to split. A betta's water should be maintained at 78-80 degrees. If your betta was fine and you did a water change then a few hours later his tail was split...chances are the water parameters didn't agree with the betta.

I've enjoyed my time on HB and admire Rachel's approach. I've tried to bring the betta hobbyist approach to a message board where it was lacking. I've had hundreds of bettas not including betta fry. I had bettas as a kid and have raised them for many years. My friends have had thousands and ship them around the world. I've raised tanks of fry to adults. I've lost my best males and females in the spawn tank. I've bought, sold, shipped bettas and given them away. I've made my share of mistakes and along the way lost bettas that I loved to illness as well as through faults of my own.

I never blamed anyone or any betta for my own mistakes. I tried to learn from them and constantly try to improve water quality as well as my betta's nutrition.

If you haven't observed a betta bite its own tail, why would you think you might have a tail biter?

I discussed this issue with Rachel and plan to take a different approach regarding what I consider the bs of unobserved "tail biting" in the future.

As my Dad used to say "a word to the wise is sufficient"

[Minaku]

One of my bettas actually used to bite his tail once his water quality started to go downhill, usually about three days (before I added plants in). I would go to work after feeding him, see that he had a nice full tail, and come back to spikes, chew marks, and pieces of tail on the floor of the tank. Often he'd be swimming circles tight enough so that his caudal and dorsal would touch his face.

Perhaps tail biting isn't common among the breeder bettas, but I'm not so sure about the normal petstore bettas - although to tell the truth, I only have one betta who is more inclined to take a bite out of his tail. My others are just fine, and leave their tails alone. I know people with bettas who take great care of them - regular, frequent water changes, the proper temperature, frozen and pelleted food as a diet, regular water testings, and still have a betta or two continually take chunks out of fins. But none of those bettas were breeder bettas.

Maybe it's the poor water conditions pet store bettas are kept in that leads them to have many more problems with their fins, from easily getting fin rot to tailbiting. I know this can be changed through a good diet, clean water, and maintaining the proper temperature, though.

I'm not trying to argue with you, Starlight, just throwing in my 2 cents for a discussion.

Edit: Maybe the change in seasons has something to do with it? My fish have certainly perked up since the warmer weather started. And starting the beginning of summer, the number of "do I have a tailbiter?" posts has gone up exponentially at the LiveJournal betta community. (Probably warm water = bacteria paradise, though.)

[starlight]

Minaku, I'm not trying to ague with you but what do you mean by breeders bettas? The bettas in lps, petshop chains stores and big box stores were bred by breeders.

Unless a betta was wild caught, it was bred by a breeder.

[Minaku]

Well, we all know that there are good breeders who breed to get a specific type of fish for show purposes, or for pleasure, and then there are breeders who aren't as careful, or backyard breed. I know there are people who buy two fish and just throw them together without proper conditioning to see what will happen, and then give the fry away to a pet store afterwards.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I always thought breeders like you or Jim Sonnier, for example, did a much better job of caring for bettas compared to some others.

Edited to take out redundancies...

[starlight]

minaku said:

Maybe it's the poor water conditions pet store bettas are kept in that leads them to have many more problems with their fins, from easily getting fin rot to tailbiting. I know this can be changed through a good diet, clean water, and maintaining the proper temperature, though.

Yes those are all issues that we used to discuss on HB before an illness issue was diagnosed. I don't see these issues being examined anymore. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough.

While a betta might be biting its tail...isn't it a good idea to understand the most important thing, the water first? 100% of a betta's body is in contact with the water. The water in SE Asia is quite different than my water in NY. For a betta to thrive it's water must match his needs, a proper diet must be fed. Then recommended fish keeping practices should be followed. Do you think that a new owners of their first betta know how to keep a betta in prime condition without stress causing blown tails? If their betta's tail becomes shredded regardless of how it happened, I think it's a good idea to try to understand how the betta is kept before you try to diagnose it.

[Minaku]

You're right, of course, and it's of the utmost importance to provide the best conditions possible for our fish. Sometimes I think that people just want a quick fix and don't want to spend the time and energy needed to care for their fish properly (but will go out and buy expensive medicine, what?!??).

Yes those are all issues that we used to discuss on HB before an illness issue was diagnosed. I don't see these issues being examined anymore. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough.

I think I misunderstood that part of your first post. I get it now!

[starlight]

>>Maybe I am mistaken, but I always thought breeders like you or Jim Sonnier, for example, did a much better job of caring for bettas compared to some others.<<

Jim Sonnier has lovely bettas! He is betta royalty afaic. He has bred bettas for many years. A betta is in his fish room it's generally going to be in perfect condition. His water has been developed over time as is his feeding program. Breeders at his level do a lot of culling to insure the best betta possible.

But what happens when it is bagged and shipped? What happens if it sits on a runway because it missed it's flight?

All the caring that Jim or any other breeder has done does not hold up in the face or poor fish keeping practices or water parameter that would suit a cichlid better than they do a betta. What happens if a new betta owner who hasn't invested in a thermometer and keeps the betta in 72 degree water? What happens if the owner knows nothing about water changes, nutrition? I've never seen a betta that can stand up to 1.0 ammo or wide pH fluctuations. I wish it were so, I really do!

(Minaku...I read your last post and realize you understand the point I was trying to make)

[Rachel]

starlight said:

Here's a simple rule. If you haven't observed your betta biting it's tail, please don't post that you think he's a tail biter. This is how internet rumors get started. Frayed red or black edges are usually the result of bacteria or the presence of ammonia in the water. The presence of any ammonia in the water is not acceptable since it stresses the betta. The recommended pH for bettas is 7.0. Test your water first. High or low pH values can cause a betta's tail to split. A betta's water should be maintained at 78-80 degrees. If your betta was fine and you did a water change then a few hours later his tail was split...chances are the water parameters didn't agree with the betta.

^^I think this is one of the main points to take away from this message. Bettas are very sensitive fish to water conditions and fin problems unfortunately are all too common. The causes of fin issues are numerous, but less than ideal water quality is often the culprit. By first focusing in on testing your water, making sure temperature and environment are ideal, water changes are being done properly, and nutrition is varied/balanced then you're on the way to providing ideal health for your fish. With any fin problem, even if you have a suspected tail biter, these are the factors to first consider and improve upon if possible.

Thanks for the posts starlight.

[Rachel]

minaku said:

Edit: Maybe the change in seasons has something to do with it? My fish have certainly perked up since the warmer weather started. And starting the beginning of summer, the number of "do I have a tailbiter?" posts has gone up exponentially at the LiveJournal betta community. (Probably warm water = bacteria paradise, though.)

That could also have to do with how quickly the concept of bettas being tail biters is spreading across the internet lately. Even just a year ago you hardly ever heard about it. You make a good point though; warmer water may cause more bacterial problems (fin rot is bacterial for example).

[supersixone]

i'm glad to see this posted. i've observed a marked increase in tailbiting claims over the past year or so on many betta forums. everyone is quick to label their betta a tailbiter and dismiss it without any real evidence, rather than accept their fish might be sick. i've kept numerous bettas from all sources and i have to say i've owned exactly one tailbiter, observed on numerous occasions chomping on his own tail. he was incorrigible, but eased up a bit with a female in the tank next door.