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Post by Emerson on Jun 28, 2003 12:52:28 GMT -5
Hi,
I was out on a tropical fish web site today, and read the following paragraph about aquarium maintenance:
Change 20% of the water twice a week in your fish's home. This is one of the most important ways to care for your fish, keep them strong and vigorous, and prevent them from becoming sick fish. When you change water, you should wash your gravel if your fish's home has gravel.
I was planning to do 1 gallon partial changes on our 5 gallon tank, once a week, so it surprised me to read that he recommends 20% twice a week on an established aquarium.
The other thing that surprised me, was the recommendation to "wash your gravel." I thought that it was harmful to do this, since you risk disrupting the established bacteria colony. (I was planning to use a turkey baster to pick up any poop, but otherwise leave the gravel alone).
Any thoughts on this??
sef
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Post by subo on Jun 28, 2003 13:05:07 GMT -5
Hi, sef!
I'm a newbie, so take this with a grain of aquarium salt if you will... But, I also have a 5-gallon tank that was purchased for my first male betta, Dawg. It overwhelmed him and in the midst of it all, the tank had bloomed bacteria, which consequently made him ill - which is a story in itself.
Regardless, I flew into panic and read everything I could about tank maintenance. I decided, due to the fact that the biological filter takes the longest to develop, that 20% (1 gallon) weekly water changes were the way to go. I don't remove & wash the gravel (which would definitely disturb the biological filter and would prevent or definitely slow the cycling), but I siphon & remove whatever waste/uneaten food accompanies the weekly gallon removed. It has been almost two months and the waters is clear & fish are healthy.
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Post by Emerson on Jun 28, 2003 14:16:53 GMT -5
Hi subo! What happened with the bacteria?  It sounds like we have the same idea for cleaning. For the past week, our tank has read 0 on ammonia and 0 on nitrites, so apparently it has cycled -- or is very close. Horatio seems happy and healthy, he is constructing a very impressive little bubblenest (which I just managed to disrupt while trying to make an adjustment to a plant today), and my gut is to go with the weekly 20% changes unless something gets out of whack. How many fish do you have in your 5-gallon? We also have live plant "pods" (Aponogetons) that I bought at WalMart. One is nearly grown; one has sprouted; and the other two are just sitting there. (Has anybody else used these in your aquarium??). The water seems clean enough with the weekly partial changes, but it just made me wonder when I read that article...! Thanks! sef |
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Post by Betta MVP on Jun 29, 2003 1:29:20 GMT -5
20% twice a week on a cycled tank is overkill. It would only be necessary if your tank was overstocked, or during cycling to keep ammonia or nitrite levels down.
Washing your gravel is a no no in a cycled tank, you will kill your nitrifying bacteria and have to start all over again. By washing, I mean taking it out and rinsing it in warm or hot water, but siphoning poo out of it is a good thing. The only time gravel should be washed is if it is in an uncycled bowl or jar and water changes on these should be 100%.
The water changes and cleaning that you have in mind are exactly what you should be doing.
The bacteria bloom that subo mentioned is not that uncommon for a tank that is cycling, though it doesn't always happen. The tank will look like someone poured milk in it. It's just an abundance of bacteria floating in the water. It was probably the ammonia or nitrites that actually made the fish sick, not the bacteria.
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Post by Emerson on Jun 29, 2003 11:01:09 GMT -5
BettaMVP, Thanks! That sounded like overkill to me, too. And then to say that the gravel should be washed...I had to read that twice to make sure he wasn't talking about a fish bowl and not an aquarium! No wonder newbies like me get so confused. As far as additives, I have been adding 5 drops of Stress Coat to the gallon container of spring water, and 1/4 tsp. of aquarium salt. Does that sound about right to you? It's very hard to do accurate measurements when you're talking about a gallon vs. 5, 10 gallons, and I'd rather err on the side of conservative rather than too much of a good thing.  Our pet store owner said that Stress Coat isn't really necessary when using bottled water because they don't add chlorine (I called the company just to make sure, and they confined this), but I want to make sure Horatio's slime coat stays in good shape. Do you agree? Thanks!! sef |
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Post by Denise on Jun 29, 2003 12:25:14 GMT -5
My bettas are in bowls with 100% water changes, but my two big goldfish are in a ten gallon cycled tank. I do 20% water changes once a week, sometimes 25-30%. Washing the gravel? This person is nuts! I recently wanted to change the color of the gravel that had been in this tank for ten years. I was really worried about upsetting the biological filter by removing the old gravel. I followed advice from Mickey, an experienced fish guy who used to post here a lot, and everything went great. I didn't clean the filter for a month so it would have a good buildup of bacteria. I left a thin layer of the old gravel under the undergravel filter plate where it didn't show, and I saved a couple of handfuls of the old gravel in a mesh bag and set the bag on top of the new gravel near the filter intake tube. I left that old gravel there for about three weeks to help the good bacteria get established again. To even think of washing the gravel in a cycled tank is crazy. It is important to remember that anybody can get a website and write whatever they want and that doesn't make them an expert. Sometimes too much information can be confusing, but I still think it is important to get several opinions, try things out, and then decide what works best for you and your fish.
I am a firm believer in using water conditioners even in bottled water. This is because you are washing decorations, your hands, etc. in tap water with chlorine. In a bowl this is especially important because you are also washing the inside of the bowl and the gravel/marbles with tap water. Plus, there is nothing wrong with adding good stuff for the fish, like electrolytes, and being positive that all traces of chlorine or other toxins are gone. Do not overdo the Stresscoat because it contains aloe vera which I have heard can be too heavy on bettas. I am not saying do not use Stresscoat if that is your brand of choice, but there are many good water conditioners that do not contain aloe vera. I have used Novaqua for over ten years. You will get different opinions on whether to use conditioner with bottled water or not, and I am one of those who say use it. Wishing you all the best!
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Post by Emerson on Jun 29, 2003 13:09:46 GMT -5
Hi Denise, I didn't realize that Stress Coat has aloe in it! The tiny bottle that I purchased at the pet shop has the price sticker right over the aloe ingredient!  A sample of AquaSafe came with the tank, and that's what I used until it ran out. Does it have the same ingredients as Novaqua? In looking at the empty packet of AquaSafe, it contains: -Sodium hydroxymethane sulfinate -Polyvinyl pyrrolidones -Organic hydrocolloids -Organic chelating compounds I'm wondering if I ought to switch. I agree with your point about using conditioners due to using regular water for handwashing (I don't rinse the decorations when I do a partial water change; should I be?). In fact, I'm paranoid about handling the BioGold pellets, and never use soap on my hands prior to feeding Horatio. I use plain water, and then dry, dry, dry using papertowels. (Do you think it's safer/better to use a toothpick?) As for the issue of using a conditioner and aquarium salt, do you think 5 drops of conditioner and 1/4 teaspoon of salt in a gallon of bottled water sounds about right? Thanks! sef |
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Post by Betta MVP on Jun 30, 2003 0:18:11 GMT -5
Since you know that your bottled water doesn't contain chlorine, the 5 drops of Stress Coat should be plenty. I personally don't like Stress Coat because of the Aloe, but some people swear by it. I've even read where some people squirt it directly on their fish as a medication because it has aloe, but I doubt if that really helps lol. I'm with Denise, I like NovAqua in my tanks and in my bowls I use the NovAqua/Amquel combo. I use 1/2 teaspoon salt per gallon, but 1/4 is great since it is really easy to get too much salt due to water evaporation since salt doesn't evaporate.
If Stress Coat is working for you, I'd keep using it until it's gone, then try something else if you want to. It's so easy to keep buying tons of stuff that people recommend for you and then you end up spending all this money for stuff that you really didn't need lol. With the little bit that you are adding, I doubt it would cause you any problems.
You don't need to wash your decorations unless they are dirty or have algae on them in a cycled tank. If you had a bowl, you would clean everything including decorations.
I'm curious, how would you feed the Bio Gold pellets with a toothpick? If you have clean hands with no soap on them when you feed him, it should be fine. I do the same thing and none of mine have keeled over on me yet lol.
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Post by Emerson on Jun 30, 2003 6:19:59 GMT -5
I'm curious, how would you feed the Bio Gold pellets with a toothpick? If you have clean hands with no soap on them when you feed him, it should be fine. I do the same thing and none of mine have keeled over on me yet lol. I'm picturing sort of an hors d'oeuvres thing going with the toothpick! <<LOL>> Okay, goofy idea. Thanks for the input about Stress Coat. I really liked the AquaSafe and probably should have stayed with that, but then it seemed to have a lot of extra chemicals in it that I didn't need I needed. (On the other hand, I don't know what all Stress Coat has in it, since the tiny bottle doesn't bother to list ingredients -- other than Aloe!) You're right; everybody seems to have their product of choice. We newbies don't have a favorite anything -- except Bettas of course!  Thanks! sef |
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Post by Betta MVP on Jun 30, 2003 11:54:34 GMT -5
I think I would like to be a fly on the wall so I could watch you trying to balance your little pellets on the end of a toothpick LOL.
I've never used Aquasafe, so I can't say much about it one way or the other. If you decide to try NovAqua, it is supposed to help with the fish's slime coat if that is what you are looking for. Most betta breeders I have talked to use NovAqua and Amquel. Amquel isn't necessary though in a cycled tank, but it helps in an unfiltered bowl where ammonia starts to build up quickly.
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Post by Barbels on Jun 30, 2003 12:41:23 GMT -5
Hi, sef! At another favorite message board of mine, a wise and experienced dear old fishkeeper (his name was 2manyfish; he passed away on June 8, at the age of 83) used to sternly warn against using Stress Coat. He used to insist that it can interefere with healthy gill function. I immediately ditched my bottle of Stress Coat. He used to recommend plain and simple "Wardley Chlor Out". He said to search for a product that neutralizes both Chlorine and Chloramines, but to avoid anything with other additives. I buy my Chlor Out at Wal-Mart (I know, I know, I detest their treatment of fish, too) for only about $1.98 for a 4 ounce bottle. Dosage is 5 drops per gallon of water. But like Denise said, go with what works for you and your fishlets.  BTW, that twice-a-week water change and wash-the-gravel thing sounds ridiculous and I'm sure glad I'm not HIS fishies. It would be nice if somebody could prevent dangerous misinformation like that, a lot of filshlets wind up suffering because of it. Thank God for good advice and fine message boards like this one. |
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Post by Emerson on Jun 30, 2003 18:29:54 GMT -5
He used to recommend plain and simple "Wardley Chlor Out". He said to search for a product that neutralizes both Chlorine and Chloramines, but to avoid anything with other additives. I buy my Chlor Out at Wal-Mart (I know, I know, I detest their treatment of fish, too) for only about $1.98 for a 4 ounce bottle. Dosage is 5 drops per gallon of water. BTW, that twice-a-week water change and wash-the-gravel thing sounds ridiculous and I'm sure glad I'm not HIS fishies. It would be nice if somebody could prevent dangerous misinformation like that, a lot of filshlets wind up suffering because of it. Thank God for good advice and fine message boards like this one. Okay I'm convinced!  I'm ditching the Stress Coat and going with something else. I just did a partial change using it; 5 drops. I hope this isn't enough to do any major harm. I've seen people who swear by it; on another Betta board, somebody actually said "great stuff; you can't use too much of it." Yikes!!!!! How can you tell if it's impacting gill function? What do you do about your Betta's slime coat, since it sounds like you strictly use a de-chlorinator-? Good news! I found a nifty thing on the web....it's a siphon with a squeeze bulb that supposedly makes siphoning the water out easier. Anything's an improvement; I'm using a little plastic cup to dip out a cupful at a time! sef |
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Post by Emerson on Jun 30, 2003 18:35:25 GMT -5
I think I would like to be a fly on the wall so I could watch you trying to balance your little pellets on the end of a toothpick LOL. You are literally making me laugh out loud, now! ;D That would be some feat, huh?? Balancing all those pellets and then....OH NO! Dropped the whole dang thing on the floor. sef |
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Post by Barbels on Jun 30, 2003 18:45:35 GMT -5
Well, going from what the folks at the aqua den message board say, fishies don't have any trouble generating their own slime coating under healthy circumstances. I like to do once a week 50% water changes using only the Chlor Out and nobody ever has shown signs of any discomfort. I am curious though, how a fish does act if he is having gill function problems. I dunno, maybe gasping for breath at the surface or something, I really don't know and I pray I never have to find out. Yes, I picked up the most deeelightful little water syphon (again at Wal-Mart) for only $4.99. It is really skinny and it fits beeeautifully into my little 5½ gallon Qtank. I bought a squeezie bulb (Hagen product, I think) at www.bigalsonline.com It goes on the end of the hose and works wonderfully for getting the syphon started, absolutely worth its weight in gold!! |
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Post by Emerson on Jun 30, 2003 20:57:53 GMT -5
Soooo.......do you think it would it cause any problems for me to gradually change to something else, now that Stress Coat is already in the water? The more I think about it, the more I think I should just go with something for the slime coat and leave it at that. I don't need a de-chlorinator (am I spelling that right?), because it's bottled water. And Horatio doesn't need the Aloe. It really does seem like over-kill. Add to this the possibility that he doesn't even need a stress coat additive.....well, I just think there's no point in gunking up the water with a lot of stuff that could in the long run do more harm than good. As for the siphon....you guys would have really had a laugh watching me try to use this thing I got at MalWart to siphon. I was following the directions about moving it "up and down" to get it started, but it absolutely would not work. Come to find out, this "mini" siphon was about 3x too long for the tank! It must have been quite a sight (my husband is a saint), and I only managed to get myself soaked without making much progress in the cleaning effort. This new one with the squeeze thingie looks promising. I ordered it on line and paid nearly as much for the postage as the pump itself, but our pet store has very slim pickings when it comes to aquarium supplies so it's worth it. |
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Our pet store owner said that Stress Coat isn't really necessary when using bottled water because they don't add chlorine (I called the company just to make sure, and they confined this), but I want to make sure Horatio's slime coat stays in good shape. 
I'm ditching the Stress Coat and going with something else. I just did a partial change using it; 5 drops. I hope this isn't enough to do any major harm. I've seen people who swear by it; on another Betta board, somebody actually said "great stuff; you can't use too much of it." Yikes!!!!! How can you tell if it's impacting gill function?