Removing an aggresive tank mate

[BeansMom]

Since my "stuck gravel" thread evolved into something quite different than was started, I am beginning a new thread...I need to remove an aggresive tank mate from my 20 gal goldfish tank. I should be able to get enough together to set her up in a 5 gallon of her own, since she is relentlessly harrassing both Adolph and Sheba. Everyone in this tank is recovering from ICH, and I believe her aggression is, in large part, responsible for Adolph's wounds (which I am now going to have to treat with Sulfa). I know I should be extremely careful with this, for all their sakes. Shilo (the aggressor) is roughly 3.5 inches long (nose to tip of tail). She came into this tank with her sister, Sheba (but she's picking on her, too). Is 5 gallons enough for an active Shubunkin? If I set up immediately, how long before it is safe to put her in? I'd like to move her immediately for Adolph's sake, but I don't want to endanger her.

[Bean]

a 5 gallon set up would only be okay for temperaly otherwise get him at least a 10 gallon. Hope that helps

[amanichen]

As said above ^^^

[BeansMom]

Well, as it turns out, I may not have to remove my aggresive little girl. Adolph is much improved (he is eating, his dorsal fin is erect again, and he is sifting through the gravel). Now that he is on surer footing, she seems to have lost interest in picking on him. I have begun follow up treatment for the ICH, using MelaFix/PimaFix combo. For a day or so, I could have sworn there was a distinctly fuzzy appearance to the areas so red and ravaged by the ICH and by Shilo, so I decided this combo would be my best bet for covering as many bases as possible. What is really concerning me at the moment is black marks appearing on Adolph. They actually look like he's rubbing up against something. Since I had not done an algae scrub on the corner he was hiding out in for nearly two weeks, I thought that might be it. But, I've scrubbed and it still looks like a few more have appeared. Can anyone tell be about Black Spot Disease? The descriptions I've read talk about black "specks", which these definately are not. They also don't appear to be rot - there is no tissue loss.

[amanichen]

As always, the best way for me to assess the condition of the fish is for me to see pictures.

The fuzzy stuff sounds like fungus growing in the wounds.

The black spots might be dying tissue but I won't speculate beyond that.

[BeansMom]

Okay - I'll see if I can get some shots. Thanks!

[BeansMom]

Boyfriend showed up last night without his camera (he ALWAYS has his camera ) Will get pics Wednesday, I hope. But, let me advance a little theory on you. My betta, Smarty was rescued with fin rot that had progressed down his body. I didn't expect to be able to save him, but miracles do happen. Anyway, he was definately a BLUE fish. As he recovered, his regrowth was white, and then colored in blue except for the very last third of his tail and his ventrals - which came in a surprisingly bright red. I know bettas have color "layers", so I expected these areas to eventually color blue. They have not - even though he is long past full recovery. Ok, on to Adolph. As a juvenile feeder fish when I rescued him, he was orange and black. His entire back and dorsal fin area were black, ending in a sort of "bangs" effect on the top of his head, and he had a square black moustache (hence the name Adolph). As all of the common goldfish and comets I have rescued, he eventually "outgrew" all his color and became a bright gold. These black spots he has now are in the exact same areas he displayed black in his youth. Upon very close examination, these areas are UNDER his slime layer, and definately appear to be pigmented individual scales. What do you think - like Smarty, has he upon recovery from a serious illness, reverted to his previous coloring? Short of some fungus on his tail, which I am treating, there appears to be no other disease. Weird, but maybe not so unbelievable?
Come on, I'm waiting for you to tell me I'm a total goofball

[amanichen]

Yes, that sounds like it. See how being there to observe the fish helps? =)

Many comet goldfish do change color as they age (usually black and silver disappear) and if there is regrowth, chances are it'll appear as the original color, and fade again with age.

[BeansMom]

Whoopie - not such a goofball after all! Thanks!

[amanichen]

Come on, I'm waiting for you to tell me I'm a total goofball

Well, when I see a sick fish, here's what I do:

1. think to myself "hrm, this fish is sick"
2. go get a beer (hard cider) and put a steak on the grill (hibachi)
3. come back and assess the overall health of the fish
4. figure out where it came from
5. figure out if it's a threat to anybody else
6. decide on a med
7. med
8. med some more
9. med again *yawn*
10. med till it's dead (the disease, not the fish)
11. eat a sandwich

Now, lets examine the process that some people go through:

1. panic, wait a week before doing anything
2. panic some more
3. panic and dump in (insert med of choice)
4. panic some more, and (insert second med of choice)
5. ask someone like me what's wrong
6. argue with me, swear the problem wasn't their fault
7. take my advice a week later and actually use a proper medication

No, you're not a goofball. You've become a little worried, but you haven't made any irrational judgements, and you've consulted me before doing anything major. Basically, you're much closer to the items on the first list than on the second list

I've dealt with lots of diseased fish in the time that I've been in the hobby, so I don't even blink when I see a sick one. I do a thorough job of evaluating potential new arrivals, and even when everything says the fish are healthy, I still expect diseases.

For instance, my original four guppies that I bought last spring, came down with some bacteria growing on their mouths. I was obviously concerned, but with some melafix it cleared up in a week, and they haven't had any diseases since. My roomate even has a third of the third generation offspring, I have a third, and the other third went to the pet store where I bought them.

You should plan ahead to deal with diseases, but don't plan to have them in the first place. I know that sounds weird, and it's difficult to explain, but that's how you should approach them: prevent them as much as possible, and be prepared when prevention doesn't work.

[BeansMom]

Aw...thank you. And this is some great advice to check everytime we panic. I will admit to being a little too ready to assume disease, since meds and water changes have become my new hobby for the past few months. Am hoping for a bit of time now of absolutely happy, healthy fish (and a little less exhaustion for me). Beside my boyfreind, my cats and dog will be happy with a slightly less harried "mommy"!