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Post by abm on Mar 25, 2005 21:57:06 GMT -5
I'll start off by reminding everyone, I have only had bettas for about 2 years and I still have not progressed to cycled tanks. But I am still learning, reading and trying things out...and sometimes I have questions....  I have read about a new water conditioner that not only eliminates chlorine/chloramines and ammonia, it also buffers the pH to 7.0 (or 6.5 or 7.5, depending on the formula). Given my recent issues with pH problems and also a possible bad batch of Amquel, this interested me. The product is Wardley's 3 in 1 water conditioner - has anyone used it, or do you have a general opinion on their products? Also, is it a given in the product descriptions that they assume you're using the product in a cycled tank? In uncycled tanks I try to limit the number of additives, since obviously they have no where to go - so "less is more" in my opinion and experience. Just wondering!  |
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Post by amanichen on Mar 25, 2005 22:01:45 GMT -5
Seachem makes stuff that does the same exact thing, so a pH buffer + water conditioner isn't all that new.
Whether or not your tank is cycled doesn't have anything to do with this =)
Water conditioners and pH buffers fall under the essential category for water treatment -- they both have a solid place in your fish tank.
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Post by abm on Mar 25, 2005 22:20:06 GMT -5
I had never used a pH buffer until my recent "situations"  For the most part my pH WAS staying pretty stable at 6.8, as long as I aged the water for a couple of days before adding it to the tanks. I got Proper pH 7.0 b/c I had read here and elsewhere that folks had good experiences with it....so this is something I should be adding at each water change? I had never heard of an all-in-one product like this before.... I guess I live under a rock down here  Thanks for the guidance:) |
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Post by amanichen on Mar 25, 2005 23:20:49 GMT -5
....so this is something I should be adding at each water change? It depends on the pH and KH of your aged water, as well as how quickly the pH in the tank drops. I know you probably wanted a concrete answer, but yeah |
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Post by abm on Mar 25, 2005 23:33:26 GMT -5
I know you probably wanted a concrete answer, but yeah Not really. For me this is a learning curve, and when I stumble upon something I've never heard of, I have to ask (what seem to be very) elementary questions. I realize the answers won't always be cut and dried, but they do help:) |
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Post by amanichen on Mar 25, 2005 23:53:37 GMT -5
I realize the answers won't always be cut and dried, but they do help:) Remember, that if you give me the information, I can answer just about any question you have. |
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Post by abm on Mar 27, 2005 19:05:23 GMT -5
Remember, that if you give me the information, I can answer just about any question you have. Yes, but I still have a lot to learn before I can phrase my questions in a way you'll understand!!!! I'm workin on it. Thanks. |
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Post by briggs on Mar 28, 2005 13:20:01 GMT -5
I'm jumping in on this party of two!
A few days ago i tested the water my fish is in now. PH was at 7.4 I havnt tested for anything else because i just lost my job and im a s tudent and i honestly have about 10 dollars to my name that i have to use for lunch so I cant go and buy a bunch water testing kits!
I'm sure most of you know that I had 3 litres of aged tap water with my betta plus conditioner, then 1.5ls of spring water with a tad of condtioner in it just incase, and the ph was at 7.4
Well a few dasy later i went and tried the ph level in our tap water straight from the tap, it was at 7.
I put some water in my big 3-4L jug, put my 1.5 caps of condtioner and let it sit for a day, then tested the ph. 7.4!. I will test it again in 2 days to see what the ph is but i ahve a feeling it wil be 7.4
I thought that the spring water gave the higher ph.. but this time around there is no spring water soooooo..
my question is.. if the water sits out, airing out wtih the conditioner in it, does the ph rise? id ont know much about that chemestry aspect of it.
I'm seriously thinking of buying that product you two are talking about, or the kent stuff (tho its a little pricy, 11.99) that star was talking about.. because since i cant test for ammo, nites etc, then thatwould be great if i used this stuff.
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Post by starlight on Mar 28, 2005 14:13:45 GMT -5
While I think the mentioned products will help you, I also am familiar with the money thing. If that hidey is made out of any mineral/rock/composite material, that would in my experience cause the pH shift that you mention.
Briggs keep this in mind...it's better to cure the water param issues naturally than relying on chemical means. It's cheaper on your wallet and better for the betta.
If he were my betta, here's what I'd do. Remove hidey, do 50% water change (100% if he's due for one). Test ph and monitor it for several days. Minerals leaching from a hidey could EASILY move your pH higher and away from 7.0
part 2 of the test. Keep hidey in a quart of water removed from betta tank. Test pH and check it in several days, you may see some very high numbers in the 7.8-8,0 range. That will tell you what's happening to your pH. Briggs...this pH shift due to foreign objects is quite common.
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Post by briggs on Mar 28, 2005 14:17:59 GMT -5
Hm.. k. I will pull out the two items in there tongiht, maybe it will say what they are made of.
In the meantime, is it possible for aged water to increase in ph?
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Post by starlight on Mar 28, 2005 15:20:18 GMT -5
Hm.. k. I will pull out the two items in there tongiht, maybe it will say what they are made of. In the meantime, is it possible for aged water to increase in ph? Yes it's possible but there's always a reason. Low KH is one. Getting a KH kit only costs more money. Two suspect objects in a small volume of water can and will shift pH towards the alkaline scale. I think you would benefit from a pH discussion with a chemistry major. Another way is to google pH and learn more about it. Here's something that they might not cover. A betta's blood pH is usually fairly close to the pH in the water. That's why it's important to maintain a neutral pH of 7.0 for bettas. This is how they evolved over time. They don't adjust very well to even minor pH shifts. A shift from 7.0 to 7.4 doesn't seem like much but it is. Each .10 pH jump is 10 times more alkaline than the previous levels. A move to 7.4 is forty times more alkaline than 7.0! |
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Post by briggs on Mar 28, 2005 15:43:36 GMT -5
Actually now that i read your post again, it shouldnt have anythign to do with the two objects, because that wasnt the water that had the ph change on me.
It was the water that has been sitting in a 1gallon glass jar for a day with conditioner in it.
Straight out of the tap it is 7.0, with conditioner and airing out for 1 day it is at 7.4
For a secodn there i was quite worried about it being his little decorations, but in this situation, the water im talking about/testing isnt even in his tank yet, and has no forign objects in it.
But i will certainly go on google and see if i can fidn an answer about ph in water!
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Post by amanichen on Mar 28, 2005 15:43:42 GMT -5
A pH difference of 1.0 represents 10.0 difference in the hydrogen ion concentration.
a pH of 4 is ten times more acidic than a pH of 5:
pH 4 = -log(10^-4 molarity)
pH 5 = -log(10^-5 molarity)
Multiply 10^-5 by 10 and you get 10^-4.
As for the pH of an aged water sample changing -- this also has to do with the dissolved carbon dioxide content of the water. Carbonic acid breaks up into water and carbon dioxide, and the carbon dioxide will outgas and reach equilibrium with the CO2 in the atmosphere.
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Post by briggs on Mar 28, 2005 15:54:33 GMT -5
Ah ok i see, thank you. So does all that CO2 disolving make the alkalin (sp) value go up in water? A pH difference of 1.0 represents 10.0 difference in the hydrogen ion concentration. a pH of 4 is ten times more acidic than a pH of 5: pH 4 = -log(10^-4 molarity) pH 5 = -log(10^-5 molarity) Multiply 10^-5 by 10 and you get 10^-4. As for the pH of an aged water sample changing -- this also has to do with the dissolved carbon dioxide content of the water. Carbonic acid breaks up into water and carbon dioxide, and the carbon dioxide will outgas and reach equilibrium with the CO2 in the atmosphere. |
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Post by starlight on Mar 28, 2005 16:00:18 GMT -5
00ps got that wrong. Each whole pH unit is ten times different from the previous one |
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For the most part my pH WAS staying pretty stable at 6.8, as long as I aged the water for a couple of days before adding it to the tanks. I got Proper pH 7.0 b/c I had read here and elsewhere that folks had good experiences with it....so this is something I should be adding at each water change?
Thanks for the guidance:)
