Flurry
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 213
|
Post by Flurry on Dec 30, 2004 14:25:18 GMT -5
I posted a similar thread on another forum, and I'm really just getting backlash at the fact that my mom made me by Cycle (which is a waste of money, I know.) and backlash at the fact that my tank maintence will be totally different from the maintence of a Betta tank (which I know.) *Sigh* Let me explain:
I got my aquarium kit for Christmas. It includes:
10 gallon glass tank
20" fluorescent hood with bulb
Whisper 10 Power Filter
Whisper 10 Bio-Bag filter cartridge
Aqua Safe water conditioner/TetraMin fish food (trial size)
I have it all set up now with an inch of gravel in it (I know I need an inch or two more since I am planning on planting it) But it isn't filled.
I was planning on doing a fishless cycle, but when I went to pick up what I need at the LPS, they really ticked me off, giving me odd instructions on how to cycle a tank using fish, which I didn't want to do, but when I tried to explain to them that I wanted to do a fishless cycle, they looked at me like I was crazy. They also laughed at me when I mentioned Biofilm, so I guess this tank is going to take me a good month to cycle.
Anyways, I came home with the gravel, an ammonia test kit, nitrite test kit, (both by Hagen) and some Cycle (which I am going to throw in there anyways to make my mom happy, she was there at the time, so I ended up choking up big time in front of the employees, but I was smart, instead of spending $8.99 on Cycle, I bought a small bottle of Cycle and a small bottle of water conditioner for $5.99, so I didn't get totally ripped off.
Anyways, I have a few questions:
My tank has no water what so ever, so I was wondering if I should fill it up now. I know I am planning on planting it (I have no clue when, whenever the LPS gets any of the plants in that I would like. I did get some advice on some hearty plants to look into) and was wondering if I were to fill it up now, if I were to fill it up all the way or maybe half way.
I still have yet to go to the store and get some ammonia, but I was wondering if I could add the water from my Betta's tank on water change days to my tank as a source of ammonia. Until I do get ammonia, is ok to add maybe some of my Betta's food? I heard it is not the best way to go, adding food to a tank, but I was curious if I could get away with it now.
Wow, this post is long and I apologize. I just want to make sure that I am doing everything right.
Thank you =)
|
|
|
|
Post by amanichen on Jan 1, 2005 21:01:04 GMT -5
Hi Flurry Who said that? Don't worry. A fishless cycle is the best way to go, and there are even some threads here regarding it, so if you do a little poking around you should find things OK. Or, if you want I can explain later one way of doing a fishless cycle. Don't go there for advice again  Anyways, I have a few questions: Well, since I'm recommending that you do a fishless cycle, I'd start by filling it all the way up now and stick some water conditioner in there. And, get the filter and heater going. As for plants, it's best to add them when the water quality becomes stable (i.e. the pH stops changing.) Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are actually plant fertilizer, but an improper pH kills plants. You could get some Java moss, which tolerates just about anything, and put it in as soon as you get some nitrite being produced. I still have yet to go to the store and get some ammonia, but I was wondering if I could add the water from my Betta's tank on water change days to my tank as a source of ammonia. Household ammonia is preferred over food because it doesn't put excess organic matter into the water, and it doesn't contain phosphate (algae food.) Well, you haven't done anything horribly stupid yet, so I'd say you're ok for now |
|
Flurry
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 213
|
Post by Flurry on Jan 3, 2005 13:28:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. Here's an update:
I filled it up Friday along with some more gravel and a bag full of tank water from the LPS, and did various tests (Ph between 6.9 and 7.0, no ammonia or nitrites), then threw in some Betta pellets.
A day later I tested the PH, and it was at 7.0. I haven't checked it since. And today I bought some Ammonia, added it to the tank, which brought it up to 3.7 ppm.
I heard from many people that Cycle is next to useless, and that Bio Spiria is a true form of bacteria that everyone seems to love. Here's what one member of the other forum told me: "when I was starting out with keeping fish I was recommended to purchase cycle. they said it had all I needed to throw fish in rite away. I didn't have enough money for fish and cycle so I thought id buy this miracle product before others found out and it sold of the shelves. unfortunatley I got home and did some research online and found out from other experienced fish keepers that it was snake oil. I tried it anyways and it didn't make a difference. $8 gone but I learned my lesson and since this is a board to share experiences with each other I thought id share my experience/opinion.
Hagen/Nutrafin claims that their bacteria can live up to 2 years in an unopened bottle and 6 months after having been opened. how does it get food to survive if it is in a sealed bottle? it also claims to work for SW and FW tanks but they are different kinds of bacteria as FW nitrifers do not tolerate higher salinities and vice versa. if you want evidence of just how cycle doesn't work do a search on this forum where countless people come and ask about it in numerous threads, all get the same answer from people who have tried it, some believe that answer and don't buy it or use it, but the ones who don't believe that we are telling the truth waste their money on it and end up having a regular cycle."
I added two capfulls to the filter anyways.
|
|
|
|
Post by amanichen on Jan 4, 2005 11:06:56 GMT -5
As far as the cycle goes, it'll help you during one part of the cycle, but during the other it won't work as well. Your mileage may vary =) As far as the bacteria responsible for the nitrogen cycle in a tank, Marineland claims to have "discovered" a "new type" they call nitrospira. Whatever they put into BioSpira has been working fairly well to keep peoples' chemical levels down when a tank is being established. Basically, "nitrospira-like" bacteria can do the nitrite--> nitrate handling. If the nitrobacter still do it, then the nitrospira are better at it. aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/64/1/258members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.htmlBasically, "Cycle" doesn't appear to help cycling. (EDIT: I should clarify that while "Cycle" does help the ammonia to nitrite step, it most likely does not help the nitrite to nitrate step. The actual total time it takes you to grow a colony of bacteria will depend on the individual factors in your tank.) I don't know the reason, but the nitrite to nitrate conversion usually goes much quicker than the ammonia to nitrite conversion when a tank is being established. I'm not sure if the bacteria multiply quicker, or just do their job quicker. Certain bacteria can form spores, and survive for a long time. |
|
|
|
Post by twoluvcats on Jan 4, 2005 11:19:42 GMT -5
I use Cycle...I do not believe that it will help much with a tank starting from 0, tho it can't hurt, and it also could be different with a fishless cycle too...but if you are seeding a tank with mature media, or trying to keep a tank from having spikes when changing filter media it works GREAT!!! I always keep a bottle on hand.
|
|
|
|
Post by marcusbacus on Jan 4, 2005 12:07:58 GMT -5
I'm almost sure that Cycle helped me a lot with my fishless cycling, making it go faster. It lasted just 12 days from scratch, for a 19G (72L) tank. When I started (on a Saturday afternoon), I didn't have Cycle yet which arrived 2 or 3 days later. 3 days after adding it, the ammonia levels (3ppm) had dropped down to a half.
|
|
|
|
Post by amanichen on Jan 4, 2005 12:16:36 GMT -5
I'm almost sure that Cycle helped me a lot with my fishless cycling, making it go faster. It lasted just 12 days from scratch, for a 19G (72L) tank. When I started (on a Saturday afternoon), I didn't have Cycle yet which arrived 2 or 3 days later. 3 days after adding it, the ammonia levels (3ppm) had dropped down to a half. It'll help the ammonia to nitrite step, but no product will work miracles all the time, it'll depend on the invididual situation. People report mixed experiences because they have mixed situations =) |
|
Flurry
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 213
|
Post by Flurry on Jan 7, 2005 18:04:02 GMT -5
My ammonia readings have been slightly lower (but not much) since I added some pure ammonia Monday, but I checked for nitrites today and there was a teeny bit, just enough for the tested water to show a pink tinge. My tank's temperature though is at 69 degrees, and I haven't had the light on since I got it. It's been a week since I started, but I'm patient, lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by amanichen on Jan 7, 2005 19:43:48 GMT -5
Get the temperature up to 78, things will happen more quickly that way.
|
|
Flurry
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 213
|
Post by Flurry on Jan 7, 2005 21:11:35 GMT -5
Our LPS doesn't stock 50 watt heaters, but we are getting a Walmart on the 25th of January.
|
|
|
|
Post by starlight on Jan 7, 2005 21:39:16 GMT -5
, but we are getting a Walmart on the 25th of January. I hope that you don't have to pay for postage! Flurry where are you going to put this Walmart, in your backyard? Anyway save me a couple of Jr. Heaters. thanks |
|
Flurry
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 213
|
Post by Flurry on Jan 8, 2005 18:22:13 GMT -5
LOL. Out town is getting a Walmart, I was thinking they would have a better selection of heaters. I heard that it's hard to get the Jr Heaters around here, but I'll keep an eye out |
|
Flurry
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 213
|
Post by Flurry on Jan 16, 2005 11:00:48 GMT -5
Update:
Last night I noticed that my ammonia dropped, so this morning I checked my nitrites, and I am finally at .1 ppm. Yay. The other day it was kind of mild, and that brought my tank's water up to 72 degrees, but I'll be getting a heater before the end of the month.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mellyn on May 11, 2005 21:04:37 GMT -5
Household ammonia is preferred over food because it doesn't put excess organic matter into the water, and it doesn't contain phosphate (algae food.) How much of the household ammonia would you add to a 10 gallon tank to start the fishless cycle? |
|
Flurry
Junior Bubble Nester
Posts: 213
|
Post by Flurry on May 14, 2005 9:31:55 GMT -5
Enough to bring the ammonia up to around 5 ppm I do believe... for me, that was about a capful and a half, but that depends on what brand you get, ect.
|
|
:
