new Betta Mom needs help

[RoAnne]

I got 2 bettas on Saturday. I bought one of those double hex tanks to put them in. I gave them the pellets that came with the tank but they wouldn't eat them. They are both very lethargic and their tail fins are clumped and droopy looking. Their colors are fading too. Today I went out and bought a new hex tank and removed the dividers, so they both have a whole hex tank to themselves. I also bought some freeze dried blood worms but they still won't eat. I have natural spring water with no chemicals in it, but I did get some Betta Plus to add to the water just in case. Anything else I should do? Do you think they are dying?
Thanks for any suggestions!!

RoAnne

[Emerson]

RoAnne,
First, welcome to the board. I think it's great that you went out and got the second hex so that they can each have more room; Bettas really "shine" when they have plenty of space to swim around in, so it was a good investment.

There are a few things that could be going on with your new guys, so bear with me while I ask you some questions that might help shed light on things:

- How long have they been lethargic w/ clamped fins and fading? Since Saturday, or did this just happen?
- Have you used anything to clean the tanks with besides hot water?
- What temperature is their water? Cooler temps can make Bettas lethargic and have clamped fins. Bettas do best between 76-80 degrees, give or take. If you don't already have an aquarium thermometer, you might want to go ahead and get one so that you can monitor this.
- Have you done a water change since you got them on Saturday, and if so, did you make sure the replacement water was the same temp as they were already in?
- Do you know what the water PH is?
- When you brought your guys home Saturday, did you slowly acclimate them to their new surroundings/water?
- Do you notice anything else about their appearance that might suggest illness? This might include torn or shredded fins, white cottony patches on their bodies, swelling, or other unusual signs.
- When you say that they are lethargic, are they staying at the bottom of their bowls?
- Are they swimming normally when they swim?
- What type of pellet are you offering them?

It's not unusual for a new Betta to refuse to eat. Stress from new surroundings, new water conditions and new food can all contribute. Be patient and continue to offer a pellet or two each day, but remove them if they remain uneaten -- otherwise, they will foul the water. I really wouldn't use the freeze-dried bloodworms as a staple food as they can cause constipation. Do you have any flakes that you can feed them as well?

Sorry your guys are a little under the weather, but maybe the folks here can help you get the bottom of it.

sef

[RoAnne]

Thanks for replying!
To answer your questions, they started getting lethargic Monday or Tuesday.

I've only used water to clean the tanks, no soap.

I don't have a heater or anything on their tanks, so their water must be colder than that. We keep our thermostat at about 68 degrees, so their water must be around that. Maybe thats what is causing the problem. Would that make their color fade out? One was a dark purple and is now reddish, the other was a dark turquoise green and is yellowish-gray now. His fins are starting to turn red too, which it seems I read somewhere isn't a good sign.

I changed the water yesterday. I filled up a gallon jug of water and left it sitting beside their tanks for about 3 hours to try to make sure it was the same temp.

I'm not sure what the water PH is. I'll have to get a tester. What is it supposed to be? It seems I read 7.0, is that right?

When I brought them home I did the same thing as I did yesterday, filled up a gallon jug, left it sitting beside them for a few hours and then I dumped them in.

They seem fine other than their faded color and clumped fins. They were so pretty when I bought them and now they just look awful!

The green one usually sits at the top while the red one stays more at the bottom. He does go to the top occasionally.

They do swim normally.

The pellets are called Bio-gold or something like that. I'm not at home right now or I would check.

Hopefully it's just the water is too cold. Unless they could die at that temp? Should I get a heater for them or will they eventually adjust to the cooler temp and be okay? Thanks so much for all your help!!

[Jenny]

If you still have them in the double hexes, these are too small for a heater. One gallon is the smallest you would want to try heating, and even this can be dangerous if the heater malfunctions. What you can do in the meantime is take empty soda bottles and fill them with hot tap water and put them next to the tank. This will warm up the tank and let you see if temperature is the problem. Wrapping the bottle and tank with towels will help it stay warm longer. A more permanent solution would be to get a bigger tank and heater, which I would recommend anyways, even a dual hex for one betta is kinda small. Walmart has one gallon bowls for about 5$, although even these are kinda small to try heating. If you don't want to buy big tanks, you get a heating pad, and put it under the tanks, with a towel insulating it. Before you put a tank with fish in it on the pad though, put a similar sized container with only water on it to make sure it stays the right temp. And make sure to get a thermometer. You can get either the stick on the side ones or the ones that sit in the tank for pretty cheap.

You don't want to leave them at their current temp. They will not get used to it. What it will likely do is keep them stressed until they are unable to fight off some illness.

[abm]

Hi RoAnne,

Welcome to the forum and to the world of bettas! I have 9 male bettas currently (!) - all are in 1 to 2 gallon individual tanks, various shapes and brands. I wanted to share some personal experience with the water temp issue. My fish were in water temps of room temperature, around 72 - as I spent more and more time here on the forum and as the weather got colder, I realized the fish might be much happier if they were warmer.

As sef and others have said, heating anything smaller than about 2-2.5 gallons is tricky and you do have to watch it closely. But I have found the Hagen mini heaters (25 watts), submersibles, to do a great and even job of heating my smaller tanks. You need a flat side in your tank to clip the heater on to and you need a reliable thermometer. The heaters I got were about $10-12 each, depending upon wher I bought them (they were backordered everywhere).

Also, a waterproof heating pad on the lowest setting can heat smaller tanks effectively - I have two tanks sitting on one right now b/c I only bought 7 heaters (at the time I only had 5 fish - who knew ?)

The point of this story is that, after everyone's tank was warmed up to 78-80, three guys who had never bubblenested before, have built just beautiful bubblenests! All of them are more active, eat more happily, and are just generally better off. So I would encourage you to address the water temp issue. And I have also used Jenny's idea of filling empty soda bottles with hot water and holding them next to the tank - I used towels to "tie" them on. The downside is the bottles cool and you must refill them, but it works for an overnight situation.

Also, about aging your water - most recommend aging it for at least 24 hours whenever possible - water can fluctuate greatly. I have 6 gallons under my desk at all times, numbered and treated with dechlorinator and aquarium salt (optional but I like it); this way I always have aged water available for emergencies as well as regular water changes.

Good luck!

[abm]

Also, just reread your post - when you change their water, "dumping them in" is not the best way to do it. I learned this the hard way, put a fish into shock and was scared out of my wits for two days.

Even if the water is the same temp, same chemicals, same everything - ease your guys into the new water. There are different ways of doing this - the main idea is to do it by degrees. I usually put my guys in some of their current water into a small bowl, maybe a pint total volume. After I clean the tank and fill it with new, treated water, I take a little of the new water and pour it in with the fish. Then I leave him for a while, maybe 20 mins. Then I remove 1/2 cup or so of the water that's in with the fish and add some more of the new water. I usually do this 3 times, progressively increasing the amount of new water that the fish are in. After this, when I put them in their new water it's not so "new" and they have no problems. I did have lethargic fish that wouldn't eat etc. but making them warmer and also learning how to properly do water changes seems to have made a huge difference for them.

Also, if you mentioned this I missed it, but do you have a dechlorinator in your water? Even if you use bottled water for them, if you are using tap water to wash their bowl, you need to add a little of the dechlorinator because tap water contains chlorine and it only takes a very small amount to make bettas sick. Almost any brand available works - I use NovAqua by Kordon, but Stress Coat is another product, and Wardley makes an inexpensive product called Chlor Out.

[RoAnne]

Thanks so much everyone for the info! I just got home from work and my little green one has died. I have filled 2 soda bottles and attached them to the sides of the other tank to try to warm up the water. Tomorrow I'll go to town and get a new bigger tank with a heater. I wish pet stores would tell people about all this!! I should have done more research before I bought them. Poor little guys. I knew the lily bowl wasn' a good idea but I thought that Bettas just weren't very active and that's why they didn't need very much space. Well, now I know differently. Thanks again for all the help and hopefully warming up the water will help the other one out.

[palepinkvase]

RoAnne - how are things going with your Betta? I am sorry you lost the green one. I know you are probably feeling very overwhelmed at the moment, but myself and others here have been where you are. Good Luck and don't hesitate to ask any question(s) you might have.

[trillian]

RoAnne-
I'm so sorry to hear about your struggles with your new friends. I give you credit though for coming online and looking for answers. Many, probably most, don't even do that much. I agree with you about the pet stores. I'm sure lovers of all kinds of pets wish that the stores would have more accurate and helpful information offered. I confronted many a store owner on how they used to keep ferrets just a few years ago! Keep up the research and you'll end up being a great new betta mom!

[abm]

RoAnne - BettaRic is right, this website has tons of information specific to bettas - and like you, I came here first because of a problem with a fish and I was panicking and couldn't find what I needed quickly I'm truly sorry you lost the little guy - but I'm glad you're learning and following good advice. As palepinkvase says, most of us have been in your shoes at some point - we weren't born knowing instinctively what our betta friends need

Now that you're not in panic mode, take some time and check out the articles and illness info on the main HB Website; if you have time, read through some of the threads under Betta Information, both Urgent and Non-Urgent. It's fascinating reading and you'll be amazed at how much you learn in just a few days.

Warmer water is bound to help Check back and let us know how the remaining guy is doing. And READ!!!

[RoAnne]

I appreciate so much all the support here on this board. Wish I had found this place before I got info from the pet store.

The people I work for have given me their 5 gallon aquarium w/ filter and heater. I have it upstaire sitting in bleach water right now. I will make sure it is well rinsed and then add water and then tomorrow I'll put the betta in, doing it the way ABM suggested! Inside the tank they gave me is some aquarium salt, PH test kit and Proper PH 7.0. This stuff was in their garage and it froze, should I throw it out and get new stuff? The expiration date is okay.

I have been reading all over this website as well as a few others. Somewhere I read to never use distilled water or well water. We have a natural spring that our water comes from, is that okay?

Thanks so much for the advice.

[abm]

RoAnne,

Is the new aquarium glass or acrylic? Acrylic will absorb the bleach solution and even after tons of rinsing, it's possible for bleach to leach out into the fish water and kill them If it's a glass aquarium just rinse and rinse and rinse some more

I agree with BettaRic about the test kits - they might be fine but if not you'll miss the chance to adjust the water before harming your fish, and I know you want to do the right thing for him.

Good luck and be careful!

[Emerson]

Hi,
ABM is right -- if your tank is acrylic, bleach can continue to leach out even after the aquarium is thoroughly rinsed. You don't say if it is glass or acrylic; bleaching glass should be okay, but do make sure you rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse.

If you are able to take your spring water to a pet store to have it tested, I really would do it. They can find out the hardness and PH for you, test for chlorine and chloramines, as well as ammonia, and determine if there are other trace elements that you should be concerned with. I really would do this prior to using it if you can; there are large multi-test kits that you can buy to accomplish the same thing, but a pet store should be able to do this for you for free. You will still want your own PH test kit for regular monitoring, though, and I'd probably get a new one if the old one was frozen.

Finally, if you are going to be using a 5 gallon tank, then be sure to read up on cycling, unless you plan to do very regular 100% water changes. Some people do this, but cycling really is a better long-term solution. Cycling is the process by which "good," nitrifying bacteria gradually become established in a new aquarium set-up, enabling it to keep up with the waste output of the fish by breaking down ammonia and nitrites into less harmless nitrates. If you go this route, then in addition to a PH test kit you will also want an ammonia test kit, a nitrite test kit, and a nitrate test kit.

(Have I left out anything folks? I'm a little punchy today)

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

sef