I've Never Heard of This...Males & Females?

[Ella3]

My daughter and I were in Walmart yesterday picking up a few things. I always have to check out the bettas. Our Walmart has been carrying a better variety and keeping them in large plastic containers. Anyway I overheard the guy working in that department tell this couple that he had 6 bettas all living in the same tank. Then I thought I heard him say that he had males and females. After the couple left, he asked if we needed help and I asked him if I had heard him correctly. He said yes, that he had 3 males and 3 females living peacefully in the same tank. I asked if he was breeding them or if they lived there all the time and he said all the time. Then I asked if they were constantly breeding and he said no.

He did say that it took him a couple of tries to find the right group of fish. He said that if you get the same color family then they seem to get along better. He says that all of his fish are dark colored.

I just couldn't believe that he had all those fish living together. I'm not looking to even try that because I love my fish too much for something bad to happen. Plus I wouldn't think that the constant mating would be good for them. Maybe I'm wrong. I just had never heard of anyone having males and females together like that. Has anyone else heard of people keeping a community of bettas?

Ella

[briggs]

I havnt heard much.

On antoher forum, a person had a divided tank with two male bettas. They were from the same spawn and 'were together' since they were born i guess. they said that every once awhile they would jump into eachothers tank and play.. well play kinda rough. The person said they never actually really hurt eachother to the extent to where one was seriously injured .. just a nip here a nip there. Kind of interesting, if the preson is telling the truth.

other stuff I've heard from some betta fighters over there over seas, is that most bettas wont fight eachother to death (assuming there is alot of space to go away). They just quarrel then back off, either kill, seriously injure or again "spare". I've never seen bettas fighta nd dont really want to so i dont know how serious even the slightest fight could be. A cut is a cut and could become infected i suppose.

But what I have seen is that when I was at big als aquarium services a few weeks ago, in one of the tanks that they keep plants in, there were two male bettas, a crowntail and a veiltale, along with a neon tetra. They werent fighting, just sort of swimming around normaly but you could see their eyes keeping an eye on eachother, and each had their side of the tank, they didnt seem to wander onto the others side. I stood there for about 20 minutes watching. I was suprised they let them keep them in there, they obviously knew they were together.

And thats all I have to say about that!

[amanichen]

This is an exception, rather than a rule. I don't think it needs to be said that this doesn't work, or else everybody would be doing it. Bettas are not known as siamese fighting fish for being peacful together

Remember, just because the person implied it was fine, doesn't mean that it won't end in disaster. Male bettas will eventually fight given enough time. I'd also be vary wary of believing what the fish people at Walmart say; he could have been lying, or just really dumb, and I'd seriously avoid going to that person for advice.

Again, he hasn't stumbled across some big secret that nobody else knows...

[Caleen]

Maybe it depends on the fish? I'm not an expert, and I haven't owned tones of fish, but fish do have different *personalities* in my experience. One of the males I owned was by far the most aggresive fish I have ever seen. He would flare every time I got near his tank. I couldn't keep my female betta tank near his because he would ram into the glass, like he was trying to get her, and I was afraid he would hurt himself.

Not all of my males were like that. My current male is rather docile. He hardly ever flares his gills, and he just seems more passive.

I don't know what he would be like with another male, since I don't have room to expand my collection beyond a single fish right now. But perhaps if you had fish with the right personalities they could live together in a large tank.

[amanichen]

Yes, fish do have different personalities, but what the guy at Walmart was saying is quite uncharacteristic of how bettas behave. He could be lying or he could just be very lucky that they didn't fight. Just because they haven't fought yet doesn't mean they won't fight in the future. He also might have misidentified some of them as females and not males.

I've kept bettas in a divided tank, and they eventually become bored with flaring at each other. But, put them together and they'll still fight. Bettas that grow up together from the same spawn (literally, the "same color family") will eventually begin flaring at each other, and they need to be separated.

This is an extraordinary story and requires extraordinary proof to be believed.

[Ella3]

Sorry, but I'm not "hooking up" with the Walmart guy just to see his fish!!! ;D

Just joking! He did seem fairly knowledgable about the bettas. He also said he had a 55 gallon tank with other kinds of fish (don't remember which ones). I'd like to see the bettas just to see how the tank looks and how they do actually react to each other. I'm not ever going to try that, but it just really interested me and I just wanted to see if anyone else had ever done that or heard of someone having males and females together on a consistant basis.

Ella

[teresa]

Ella, maybe if you ask the guy real nice he can email you a pic? If you aren't comfy giving him your email address, give him mine, as long as you don't think he is an axe murderer or something. I think we would all love to see just how he pulled of the impossible (not in a million years to copy it, but just cause it is so rare)

[Ella3]

I could see what he says if I happen to see him again. He may only work on weekends or something. Usually I see this lady working back there on weekdays. She doesn't seem to know that much about the fish. He was a nice guy so he might send a picture.

[ickyfishywishy]

i know its kinda late but,,,,,, i think it depends on the fish,,, with all the fish we all have havent we all noticed each fish's personality and that each has theyr own little things.... i have a sword tail who thinks hes the KING of the whole tank!! :S i cant own any other male swordtails cuz of him! he actualy chases any other small male straight to the gouramies teritory where the gouramy would start harrasing him as well till the porr male just dies but my friend has a 6 males together and NUTHING ever happnes! (swordtails) so i guess in betta sense 99% of them are uncompatible together and 1% MIGHT live together maaaaaybe!? i would never try though! unless u have a 500galon tank with soo many places to hide and so many other fish to keep each busy hope that guy learns his lesson if hes realy lieing to you!!!!

[Ella3]

I agree that they are all different. I just know that my 3 males would never last in a tank all together. I just set up a divided tank and had to get a ton of plants and a darker divider. When the divider was clear, they just flared non stop and charged at each other. They have calmed down now that I redid the tank.

On the other hand, I have 4 females who live very peacefully together. Others have had problems with females. Guess you just never know.

Ella

[Minaku]

I was at the fish store looking for plants yesterday when I spotted two bettas, a male and a female. That was pretty unremarkable, but the guy there - who otherwise was very knowledgeable about fish and plants - told me that I could go ahead and put the male in with three females in a community tank. I gave him an incredulous look and said, "I've never heard of that, ever. Won't they fight?" And he told me no. I asked him why, and he said that the male wouldn't fight with multiple females, and that they wouldn't fight him.

I'm still not going to put a male in my future female tank, but I wanted to relate this story. I guess it's not a fluke that some people will say it's okay to put a male and a bunch of females together.

[ickyfishywishy]

i know NEVER put males together in a tank but i did see the same thing with many females and one male in a comutnity tank at a pet store once,,,, the tank wasnt there today after i read ur post i thought to go look again and see it but my luck,,,, maybe if there are many females and a big enough space with other fish as well, the malewould have many things to keep him distracted besides fighting females,,,, maybe?

[starlight]

Icky, the male is more than "distracted", here's why. We're talking about a community tank with a filter running. It many cases it would be a power filter. The male would be hard pressed to build a bubble nest that would last. A male in good condition would harass/chase each female. The females are much faster than the males. With plants and their well-thought out escape routes they would in most cases escape the male. This wouldn't stop him and he'd get frustrated and run down. Eventually illness would overtake him. Of course your "betta expert" pet shop guy would replace the male with another pet shop veil. His cost for the male is 80 cents. That's the betta's value to this "betta expert pet shop guy"

I want to remind posters that the betta hobby did not originate in Petco/Petland Discounts/Walmart or the scores of US Mom and Pop Pet shops in the US and Canada. Asian breeders have been breeding and keeping bettas for hundreds of years. The betta has evolved through the passing of time. It is their nature that has allowed them to survive and occupy a niche in nature that other fish couldn't. Above all bettas do not adjust to conditions. Stress a poorly conditioned Petco male and he'll die. Put a female in a stress situation, repeat the stress on a continual basis and her health will suffer. The Thai name Plakat means biting fish. They are not called fighting fish without reason.

I look to the way bettas are raised in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore to understand the best way to maintain, breed and enjoy bettas. I try to to provide conditions that gives my bettas a better chance to thrive. With few exceptions, expert betta advice is not available at most pet shops. As I read a post like this, I wonder of the importance of relaying stories like this. Unfortunately for the pet shop betta, there's another difference. He's just another fish to many people. Deconditioned pet shop male .80, female .60. Good quality Thai male $50 - $100 on Aquabid plus $40 shipping. Same quality female $25 - $75. Do you think it's a good idea to put this male in a community tank to chase females until he gets run down and dies? Or do you think that it's a better idea to put him in ideal conditions and raise him as closely as possible like the Thai do?

on edit...I've seen many bettas in community tanks and while a handful of males enjoyed it most did not. The first clue is the horizontal stripes that I've observed on many of the males. The second clue is the unhappy male that hides or bobbles about in the current. Maybe it's the filter or maybe it's the Angels nipping him but with few exceptions they aren't good community tank fish.

When I read stories like this, unless I saw the bettas and had a chance to observe their condition and how they acted, I wouldn't put much stock in it. If I were a female and didn't want to put myself in a situation to observe the bettas with this person, I wouldn't trust his story either.

Well there you have it, a real essay. I've always enjoyed Healthy Betta. It's not called Betta Tales or Betta Stories or Betta Facts Learned at Petco While Shpping for CD's. People do not spend time on Healthy Betta to sell you bettas for $3-$5 that cost .80. There's no profit motive involved. Think about it the next time you hear a story like this.

Oh and here's another thing to ponder. Asian Fighter People use small females to train their young male fighters with. I've read they use several at a time. There's probably no plants or cover in the tank. Just 3 small females and a well-conditioned Plakat Male 5 times their size. Next day they probably use three more. Not a pleasant thought is it? That's how I feel about subjecting a group of bettas to this type of stress.

One chuckle in these stories "He did say that it took him a couple of tries to find the right group of fish. He said that if you get the same color family then they seem to get along better" Ella, this guy is a jerk! He's a complete joke...yeah my red male Starfire wouldn't harm Confetti my pinky-red female bf because they are the same color and from the same spawn! When you try to breed bettas you get a good chance to understand these fish a bit better. The color family story is the best!

Rachel, is there an award for the longest HB post of the year? Well that's how I feel about this subject. At least I can provide a link to this thread, the next time this type of question appears. I could go on but this is a volume.

[Ella3]

This post was never meant to be advice to anyone as a way of keeping bettas. I mentioned numerous times that I would NEVER keep males together or keep males and females together in a permanant home.

I only posted it in the general betta discussion as something that I thought was odd and had never heard of such a thing. I'm fairly new to keeping bettas (Nov. 2004), but I think I am doing a really good job so far. Being new, I'm trying to learn all I can and just wanted to see if anyone else with experience had ever heard of such a thing.

This was only meant as a "I heard something strange" type of post just to generate a little conversation. I love all 7 of my bettas and want them to have the best care possible.

Sorry if anyone was offended. That was not my intention.

Ella

[starlight]

Ella, yes you are doing a good job as a new betta-mom. Keeping 7 bettas is quite an accomplishment.

Nobody was offended so don't take it that way. I realize you weren't going to try it and only want the best for your bettas.

Now you know what might happen and why it's not the recommended way of keeping bettas.

Still this topic appears from time to time. It always seems to originate at the pet shop level. There's a whole lot of misinformation at that source. Check other threads on this and many other betta boards regarding pet shop advice.

Regarding this topic, at least the next time it appears I'll be able to provide a link. My reply wasn't about you, it was about pet shop guys that offer gratuitous advice.

Most people I know, close their ears when the go into a pet shop. Usually the advice is pretty bad and some new owners accept it since they have no reason to doubt it.

The next time anybody hears that bettas can be kept together, tell them to join any betta message board. They can discuss their theories there and real betta people can ask them a few questions about their "methods".