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Post by loke on May 21, 2006 17:39:15 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
I'm new, just got my first betta two weeks ago. After a week, he started having Ich pretty obviously, so I did some research and found a site from a university that said you can treat small freshwater fish with a solution of 12mg/L methylene blue. I'm a college student in the New Hampshire/Vermont area and have access to a lab, (the nearest pet store, where I got the little guy is 10 miles away, which was impossible for me to get there in any reasonable period of time) so I mixed up the solution (12mg in 1L DI water, made 3L for "3 treatments of max 10 minutes 2 days apart) and let him swim around in it for 5-10 minutes three times over the last week. He was doing a lot better after the first treatment, there were a lot fewer parasites visible, and then after the second treatment his color started looking less vibrant and he started behaving differently. I had him in a different tank while he was healing and I changed the water pretty frequently (I use tap water treated with "BettaSafe"). Now I've moved him back to his tank, and all the buggies are gone, that I can see, but he's not eating right and his color has turned from a very deep irridescent blue with some red in the fins to much less pretty and some gray spots and fin/gill damage.
What should I do? He's very unhappy--stays at the top with his nose at the surface of the water or on the bottom of the tank, and darts around when he's not doing that. Poor fishie. I want to try to save him but I dont' know when or if I'll be able to get to a pet store to get whatever he needs.
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Post by amanichen on May 21, 2006 18:54:50 GMT -5
Hey loke, The thing to remember when killing ich, is that its life cycle consists of multiple stages. The protazoans can only be killed while free swimming, and not while encysted in the fish's muscle tissue. While an increase in temperature can speed up the life cycle, and it's possible that certain chemicals "encourage" the microbes to come out of the fish earlier, they can't be harmed. Seeing less spots on the fish simply means the protazoans have eaten, and are dividing. (More information here: s94779296.onlinehome.us/website/Fish/faqs/ich.html)The other thing is that when you used distilled water as a bath, you effectively put the fish into an osmotic shock, and probably didn't do very much to the ich itself. You need a sustained medication level to kill the protazoans. Methylene blue does work, but you'd want a constant concentration. The fish's general condition may be a combination of the ich wounds, suddeness of the treatment baths, and being moved from one tank to another. The change in water chemistry may have affected him. And, unless you've seen no spots on the fish for 14 days, then you may see a re-occurrence of the spots in the event that any protazoans got transferred in the water with the fish. So for now, watch for any further spots, and stop messing with the fish: keep it in the same tank, and same water chemistry, don't administer any chemicals or medications unless you see ich again. Ensure that any necessary changes to his habitat are done gradually. Take a look at the general care guidelines on the HB website to make sure everything you're doing is ok. |
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Post by loke on May 21, 2006 23:08:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice, I've been watching him ("Particle") and he's not doing any better or worse, I'll just wait it out.
Have any of you used the Methylene Blue solution successfully before? My understanding is it's not the same kind of treatment as the other ones, in which you attempt to kill the protazoans in the free-swimming life stage. It stains the cells of the fish and disables their metabolism so that the swimmers can't latch on. The chemical seems to have a number of uses in chemistry, biology, and medicine.
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Post by amanichen on May 22, 2006 8:09:43 GMT -5
I'm not a microbiologist or an icthyologist, but Kordon, a reputable manufacturer of water conditioners says this about methylene blue: www.novalek.com/kpd28.htmIt may very well affect the cells of the fish, but this suggests that it affects the parasites themselves. That said, methylene blue is still one of the stronger chemicals out there, and no doubt affects the fish in some way. If you can post a link to the source where it says that methylene blue kills the cells of the fish to work, then I'd be interested in reading it. |
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Post by loke on May 22, 2006 15:09:20 GMT -5
Well, in the lab, methylene blue is used as a temporary stain to be able to see certain things under the microscope better without damaging them, and also as an indicator for some oxidation-reduction reactions. The site with the information about the bath I used was www.algone.com/fish_dips.htm. (It's another aquarium product manufacturer) Anyway, as for poor Particle, I haven't done anything and he's not looking too hot. His fins are deteriorating and one of his eyes is cloudy. I moved him closer to a lamp to try to warm up his water more. He seems to be doing better after that. |
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Post by amanichen on May 22, 2006 15:32:01 GMT -5
Well, in the lab, methylene blue is used as a temporary stain to be able to see certain things under the microscope better without damaging them, and also as an indicator for some oxidation-reduction reactions. The site with the information about the bath I used was www.algone.com/fish_dips.htm. (It's another aquarium product manufacturer) While it might affect the fish, I think the web page says that the meth. blue affects the parasites and not the fish as a means of treatment. "Methylene Blue works by staining cells and disabling their metabolism." There's nothing about what specific cells it works on but I'd assume it's the microbial cells, not the fish. What size tank is he in? From what you say it doesn't sound like it's heated. |
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Post by loke on May 22, 2006 16:01:30 GMT -5
He's in a ~2-gal vase, it's not heated but it would be if I could figure out how to do it with the small space I have in the room.
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Post by amanichen on May 22, 2006 19:18:35 GMT -5
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Post by loke on May 24, 2006 16:50:42 GMT -5
Well, poor Particle is okay... no better, but thankfully no worse. I got some "Splendid Betta BettaFix," it was the only product at the pet store they had for fin rot... the eye thing turned out to go away within a few hours. The gross black that was on his fins is gone, he's lost a good amount of tissue and much of it is stringy, but he's still swimming around. I'm doing my best to keep the water clean. Poor baby, I don't think he'll make it, he just looks so gross (fins are stringy, still black in places, his body looks... well, dirty) and still is not eating. What else can I do?
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