p.H problems...

[Captain Flashheart]

In my town, the water supply is INCREDIBLY alkaline. Around 8.0 or so. I had thought about getting a P.H lowerer-er, but at the end of the week I also tested his water, and it was around 7.4. Which means it lowers, obviously, as he releases ammonia and what not. Though the ammonia level was very low - but that's a tangent.

So, here are my thoughts:

1) It's bad to have him in an ever changing p.H.
2) p.H is changing naturally anyway.
3) If I lower the p.H at the beginning of the week, by the end he'll be burning up.

CATCH 22! I had to put him back into the 8.0 tank though, he was turning white from stress.
He doesn't show any signs of discomfort in his bowl at all, though. In fact, it's the act of changing the water that seems to frighten him uncontrollably. He's been kept in decent sized digs for a long time, both at the pet shop and now here, so the litre-jug seems to terrify him.

(I think I'll get a plastic bowl for him next week, I can get a cheap one at PetsAtHome, just for water changes. It's a little smaller than what he has, but it shouldn't scare the bejeezus out of him either.)

He has NO patience for acclimation, choosing to do it "Free Willy Style" and hop the top of the jug the second it is placed into his tank. Der. That being said, his colour returns almost immediately (I give him a mirror and two bloodworms, so he forgets his angst quite quickly).

My question: Do you think I should try to fiddle with the p.H?


Also, a bonus round: Anyone in the UK know where I can get Hikari pellets? I found them online, and I'm ordering, but I wouldn't want to rely on that forever. I AM going to condition him to eat them, he cannot live on bloodworms and daphnia in a vicious cycle of "consptipation! Relief. Constipation!" >.<

Thanks in advance,

Flash

[ACKislander]

BOY DO I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!

I have VERY low buffering capacity in my water naturally, so I would have major pH crashes that were actually mass killing my otos. My pH is naturally 7.6 but would fall to under 6.0. pH up or pH down really don't work over time. They're just a quick fix and don't last, so I avoid them anyway. What is your buffering capacity? (kH) That's what gives you the ability to hold your pH steady. It's better to have a higher pH of 8.0 all the time then have a range. There are ways to increse your buffering capacity once you determine if it's low.

First.. is there anything in your tank that could be causing the fluctuations? Decorations made of stone, ceramic, etc? If not, check the KH of your tap water. Then we'll take it from there.

[Captain Flashheart]

kH was the ONE test kit I couldn't find anywhere! I'll do my best. There's a castle in there, but I'm not sure what it's made of exactly. I'm sure it's not stone or ceramic, but it's not plastic either.

He's swimming around fine, though his pelvic fins look a little damaged - he's a spikey sort of fella, though (I thought it was silver-shark related damage at first, but I saw a picture - a pro, published picture - of a betta that looks exactly like him, captioned "Healthy male betta..."), but I'm sure they've not always been that way. I'm guessing that's either my fault (I was using a net to catch him, not anymore e_e), it's the shape they're growing *into*, or it's the beginnings of fin rot. He's not having any difficulties moving though, so I'll be grabbing Melafix and stuff for fin rot tomorrow . I'll bother PetsAtHome about kH tests as well, while I'm there!

I'm such an obvious n00b Thanks anyway!

-Flash

[ACKislander]

I don't think the castle has anything in it to affect the pH. It's probably made for aquariums. Some things like some terra-cotta pots and certain types of stone can affect it, but it doesn't sound like you have any of that. I'd place my chips on low buffering capacity. Let us know when you test it. If you find that it's low, you can use Dry-Buffered AmQuel to condition your water... It's really hard to find in stores but you can buy it online. That's what I had to do. Also, you can place some baking soda in the water. You'll have to test it to see how dramatically it affects the water (in a bucket not in your aquarium) because it may or may not raise the pH. I find that about 1/8 tsp dissolved in my 10 gal works great, but my pH is MUCH lower then yours so it'll be different for you.

Just as a reminder, you don't want your pH to raise or drop more then .2 in a 24 hour period. So, if you do the baking soda method, you'll need to work the math so that it's carefully controlled.

let us know how it goes.

[palepinkvase]

Are you aging your water out of the tap? or immediately using it? When you do the water change, do you scoop him out and into completely new water? or do you leave him in some of the old water? I have one who doesn't like to acclimate either. He jumps right out of his cup and into his tank. Our boys must have seen "Free Willy" as little baby bettas! I still pour the old water in with the new. I wouldn't fool with the pH unless is it really becoming a problem. As ACK mentioned, it is better to be consistent than to have great fluctuation.

[Captain Flashheart]

He gets taken out and put into a jug of his tank water, I think he's honestly just a little unhappy at being boxed in, even just for ten mins...

I don't age the water, but I do condition it with stuff to remove the chlorine and the metals .

*G* I actually feel GUILTY about acclimating him, because he hates it in that jug so much. I might badger my local pet store for a bag I can use, instead.

-Flash

[Captain Flashheart]

OK, a mere ... eight hours later, my p.H is 7.4 and ammonia=zero. Is this involuntary nitrification cycling?

I'd say that if the p.H is going to drop on it's own (and it doesn't change over the week, I did tests last week and right up till the day before water-change the p.H was within the same range), maybe I should just leave it?

-Flash

[palepinkvase]

Water coming out of the tap can have a higher or lower pH that will change as the water sits, regardless of whether it is conditioned or not. It might be best to let your water sit for a bit and see if that makes a difference. As for adding anything, it sounds like your water improves fairly quickly and that is not the cause of Ming's agitation during the water change. It really does sound like he hates his temp. jug. Is it see-thru? If not, perhaps he doesn't like the loss of his view?

[Captain Flashheart]

It's semi-see through. I've given in, I'm getting him a plastic bowl for it... but it will mean the use of the net must continue. The shelf the bowl's on is way too finicky to do that part any other way :\. I'll just be careful. Today he actually volunteered himself into the net. I don't know what he THOUGHT he was doing, but that's what he did!

-Flash

[palepinkvase]

Funny about the net! ;D I guess he just wants to get it over and done with. I move my containers to the kitchen when doing a water change and use a glass tumbler to catch my guys. Some are smarter than others when it comes to being caught. I wish they would volunteer.

[mermaid]

actually my purple betta swims right into the net for me! hes so gentle he swims over to "check it out" and he goes along with it, like he knows i need to keep his tank nice! and he has done this several times, it wasnt a "one time thing, but now he knows better" situation, but that works for me! of course my other betta is an agressive little thing. i found that giving him 1 pellet of food and netting him while he grabs it works well (im sure he was annoyed with me at that stunt!

[palepinkvase]

Aren't you the crafty owner?
All my guys know that once the plants come out it is time to head for the bottom and dart about.

[towelpants]

...some people mix in distilled (yes, distilled) water with regular tap water to regulate the pH. but i don't know how big your tank is, so that could be a waste of money. and i don't know the ratios they use.