A Long Finned Female?

[briggs]

In one of my earlier threads I was noticing some things with my young fish. First somethign wtih his fins that I thought might be tail rot, but i jus tbelive its him changing his colors as he gets older. He's not just blue anymore, thats for sure.

Anyways, the other thing was this white .. 'thing' between his ventral fins and his anal fin. I know females have ovip-someting rather for egging laying.. and males dont.

I've looked up many disease listings on google, and nothign really explains this one, if it is a disease or not. The closest i could find was the cotton thing, but this is not at all stringy. Its just a white rectangluar 'thing' in that area. He has no other signs of illness at all, no other symtoms in any of the listings ive read.

Here are some pictures, sorry they are not the best. I will try for some better ones later. He likes to face my camera most of the time, and if hes not doin that he's zippin around.

I know rachel and amanichen have taken a look, and amanichen thinks he might eb a female! That would be quite interesting indeed. I'm not sure how else to distinguish a male from a female tho, other then fins and the egg laying thingy.

(images available upon request)

Oh, and if it is a female.. maybe this is why its been 1 week + 1 day and I havnt seen a single bubble nest..


I also just wanted to add, my photos arent great at all, but on the camera screen, you can really see the whiteness, and it looks alot more similar to the image above with her white dot/rectangle shape then it does on the computer screen images!

[amanichen]

Yes, there are such things as long-finned females. In rare cases there have been bettas which appear to be hermaphroditic, but from what I've seen this conclusion was arrived at using visual inspection and "behavioral" analysis, and not an autopsy.

Additionally, a lack of a bubblenest does not indicate that your betta is a female (even some females will blow bubbles sometimes.) Males tend to build nests the most when the weather or water chemistry changes. This is why bettas tend to nest right after you buy them, and after water changes. They are also sensitive to changes in air pressure, which affects the relative water pressure. Approching rain or storms can also trigger nest building.

It appears that your fish may have an ovipositor in the pictures you provided in this post, but in other ones I can't see it clearly. Another clear picture from below would be useful in seeing what's going on.

[briggs]

I've been emailing around and i got a reply today, from a breeder (I think atleast, i cant remember exactly who it was i emailed now..) but i thought some might find this interesting.

"Based on your description, these are the possibilities.

1) Female betta with long fins.

2) Female betta with an ovipositor that was not fully developed because of "adnormal condition" in the first 6 weeks after spawn, resulting it to "transform" into a male.

3) Female betta with injured/diseased ovipositor, resulting it to "transform" into a male.
"

[briggs]

I'm still trying to get better pictures. I hope i can put this to rest soon.

He's behaved somewhat now, he knows when he has to sit still in the corner of the tank (he waits for food), except i cant get a good shot of the white thing because since hes "sitting" vertically, his ventral fins are also vertical to his body so i cant see the white spot with the camera, but im still trying!

[starlight]

I hope i can put this to rest soon.

Try to get a shot of him flaring at a mirror with all fins extended including one that shows the complete anal fin including the tip. Don't worry about the spot. That's not what I need to see. If it shows up fine, a full-side shot, all fins flaring with anal fin showing will provide more info.

What that breeder emailed you has been mentioned to me before. Keep in mind, pro-breeders routinely get 200-500 betta fry in a spawn. Different things turn up when the numbers are that high.

[briggs]

Ok I'll try getting some good shots tomorrow.

[briggs]

starlight said:

Try to get a shot of him flaring at a mirror with all fins extended including one that shows the complete anal fin including the tip. Don't worry about the spot. That's not what I need to see. If it shows up fine, a full-side shot, all fins flaring with anal fin showing will provide more info.

What that breeder emailed you has been mentioned to me before. Keep in mind, pro-breeders routinely get 200-500 betta fry in a spawn. Different things turn up when the numbers are that high.

This is the best I could do for him/her flaring as of now. if you need a better shot of his top fin flaring also then let me know and ill try again.

And you might be able to see the white spot too in these.

www.projectbrigz.com/fish/flare01.jpg
www.projectbrigz.com/fish/flare02.jpg

[starlight]

Nice pictures.

Here's my take...he is not a long-finned female betta. He is in fact a pin-tail betta. This is a tail variation of the veil tail. He's in real nice condition aside from minor anal fin fraying. You might want to keep your eye on the condition of his anal fin in case it worsens. He clearly has an ovipostor. The experienced betta breeder gave you several ideas how this may have happened. Any of those explanations would account for this condition. In any case he is a male and would attempt to reproduce as a male and not a female.

I hope that this in no way detracts for your feelings towards this nice betta.

[briggs]

Nice, thanks. after looking at his flare i started to wonder if he even is a straight veiltale or not, it doesnt really look it!

I did notice the slight freying on his anal fin. its been like that for awhile so it doesnt seem to be getting worse, but i will of course keep an eye on it.

and nope, male or female, or both, no difference to me, he's still the wonderful little spunky fish who was the only one flaring of the bunch when i bought him and the one who flares his gills at my finger

Cant say i have a problem with spending 3.88 on a betta thats not a straight veil tail but a pinwheel, and also has an egg laying tube!haha, he's quite the unique little bugger to me, atleast

Thanks for checking him out for me guys. I dont think I have to change his name from "sarge" to "odessa" now