Unhappy Fishy

[Lala]

How long have you had your fish? I got him 6 days ago

Have you made any changes recently – tank size, food, water source, conditioners, etc? no

Does he (or she) have any tank mates? no

What size is the tank and is it filtered? Is it cycled? (A small tank that gets complete water changes won't be.) Its a 1/2 gallon tank. No and No

How often do you change the water and what conditioners/water treatments do you use? I change the water completely every 3 days and use HBH bowl prep.

Are you currently using any medication? No

What do you feed your fish, how much, and how often? Normally 2 Betta Bite pellets in the morning and 2 pellets at night, he's kinda small. I tried feeding him him tetra brine shrimp in gel Saturday for his dinner and he spit it back out, so I went ahead and gave him the pellets

What is the water temperature? (All betta owners should know this and should have a thermometer to monitor it.) Its 78 right now and getting warmer, its been dropping to 74 at night.

What are the pH and ammonia levels? (Also nitrate and nitrite levels if it is a cycled tank.) Do you regularly monitor these levels? I monitor the ammonia every other day or so currently its between 0 and .5 and his last water change was two days ago. The pH is 7.2 which is odd because my water out of the tap is 6.9-7.0.

Describe your fish’s symptoms and your concerns. How long have they been present and have the symptoms changed?
Saturday night he ate like normal and was his usual happy self, Sunday morning he was just floating around looking sad and he wouldn't eat. I thought I was imagining it but I'm pretty sure he lost a little of the color around his head, but his body and fins have stayed normal. Since then he hasn't eaten but he's acting more like his normal self and his color has stopped fading. I'm worried about the water temperature I try as hard as I can to keep it around 80, but with the little tank its seems near impossible. So I'm considering getting a bigger tank as soon as I can. But at the earliest that would be tomorrow. I'd hoped that I could keep the small tank longer till I have more room, My biggest worry had been the ammonia levels, they have been fine but I didn't think about the temp being hard to keep stable.

The other thing is the pH. My tap water seems perfect, it has no chlorine, and is near 7.0, could the conditioner be raising the pH? I can think of anything else that is different, or does the pH raise with ammonia levels. This might be a dumb question but I cant seem to find the answer, I know a 0 ammonia level is best, but at what level should I change that water, Iv been changing it before it gets to .5, but if I could go a little longer safely and not cause him so much stress that'd be nice.

Oh one more thing. Is it odd that he didn't like the shrimp? Maybe it was a sign of him not feeling well but from everything Iv heard Bettas like the shrimp and bloodworms very much so I'm surprised that he would spit the shrimp back out but still eat pellets. Next time I go to the store I'll get some bloodworms, thats what I had planned on getting him but I saw they frozen ones and they kinda freaked me out lol.

I keep waking up afraid he's going to be floating at the top of his tank . I know the obvious answer here is get a bigger tank, and as soon as I can I will but i was wondering if there was anything I could do to make him happier till then. He's got two little plants, one is the plastic one that came with his tank, it's smooth, and he loves it so I left it in but also put a little silk plant in so he could get used to it before I made the switch. I put these little plastic rocks in they are about 5x the size of his stones, and I swear he plays with them when I'm not looking, they almost float, just dense enough to rest at the bottom, so I know if he tried he could move them and I think he does.

I'll make sure to post if anything changes.
Lala

[Lala]

I forgot to add... Looking at the symptoms on the desease page I'm pretty sure he's depressed. Also he has no clamping and fluffed out at me this morning (not really flared).

I was wondering is it better to get a tank thats wider than it is tall or the opposite? I'm not sure if it matters but thought Id ask before I go hunting for a new tank.

[abm]

Hi Lala,

I had a long reply written to you and then the board kicked me out So I'll be brief...

First, don't panic. Your guy is still settling in after a week. Just keep offering (and removing uneaten) food and keep the water sparkling clean. Also, my guys don't seem crazy for shrimp either...go figure.

Water: Ammonia is even more toxic when pH levels go up, so if your pH is rising, you need to do water changes even more often. Get him into something larger ASAP, and I personally have had great success using the Hagan min-submersible 25 watt heaters in small tanks. They're recommended for 5 gallons but I use them in 2 and 3 gallon tanks, and I have used them for months in one gallon tanks. Personal experience, nothing more. Others will disagree. But you need to get the water temp stable around 78-80 degrees; the swings are weakening your betta. Which isn't helping his settling-in I'm sure

Tank shape is more of a personal choice I think. I have various shapes, collected from various sources, and all of my guys seem perfectly happy and have lots of space to swim:)

I'm afraid this is going to kick me out again so I'll end... remember to post updates, and good luck!

[RachelS]

From all the information I've gotten from here and elsewhere, you sound like you're going to do just fine by your fishy. I have a 1/2 gallon tank I got to begin with for my Ghoti, so don't feel bad. I'm keeping it in case of fishy emergency!

If you upgrade them to a 2.5 you can use a heater, which ought to help stabilize your tank temperatures. Mine are at 78 F during the day, and at night they might drop to 76 F (don't ask me why, we've got the house shut up and are running the A/C 24 hours now) but drops from 80 to 74 would be fairly drastic for a fishie. My guys are in 2.5 acrylic minibows, and from what I've seen a lot of people use the minibows. They're taller than they are wide, but it doesn't bother my fishies any.

I have heard that some bettas are picky. Mine haven't turned down anything I've given them yet, though they haven't gotten a lot of stuff. Next addition to their menu is going to be freeze-dried shrimp. They do love their freeze-dried blood worms. One sniff, and SLURP! worms were gone, the first time. Now, no sniff, but all sorts of SLURP! I'd keep trying different things, but as long as he's eating pellets he's certainly not going to starve. Silly fishy.

[Jenny]

I also wouldn't worry about his lack of activity. He is probably just settling in. Some bettas are also just picky about what they eat. I also have one who won't touch anything but pellets. Just be sure to take any uneaten food out of the tank so it doesn't get dirty. A bigger tank would be a good idea, but if it will be awhile until you can afford/find space for a big one, you could give him a small upgrade in the meantime. Wal-mart has one gallon drum shaped bowls for about 5$, and this would be a good improvement over what he has now with little cost, and it shouldn't take up much more space either.

One thing that I have found can help with a depressed betta is to occasionally give him a mirror (or a friend) to flare at. This can help to perk them up. For the problem of the temp going down at night, maybe you could try moving him into a room farther from the outside of the house, where the temp will vary less, maybe a bathroom.

[starlight]

>>I monitor the ammonia every other day or so currently its between 0 and .5<<

.50 is too high, even .25 will cause stress. Try to keep ammo levels at .0 I've been using small ammo chips by Marineland to absorb ammo. Plants will help as well.
Syphon out all debris as soon as you notice it.

[Lala]

Hi ABM, Rachel, Jenny, and Starlight.

I always get the uneaten food out as soon as I decide kat's gonna keep ignoring. I switched out most of the water today now it tests no ammonia.

The thing that worries me is because this is new, the first 3 days I had him he did great, and now he's being lethargic too, he has barely moved from the spot he likes by his plant all day. I got him to swim around a little with the mirror, but then he went back to that spot.

I'm going tomorrow morning to get him a bigger tank, either a 2.5 or 5 gallon (I'm pretty sure their Minibows). They come with a filter and a lamp, my friend has the 5 gallon and said she has to turn it off during the day or it gets too hot, so I think maybe that will work well to keep the temp up, if not than I'll get a small heater. I don't know if I want to use the filter, depends on what size it is, but putting him through the cycle seems like it would be worse right now than changing the water, also the current and possibility of hurting his fins worries me. I seem to remember someone saying plants will help keep the current down. I'm not sure what Wal*mart has in the way of plants but I will definitely look. Oh and If I do use the filter do Bettas like bubbles? My friend has goldfish and got them a bubble wand and they seem to love it, but I havn't heard anything about bettas liking them or not.

Also I was thinking about getting him a froggy or snail buddy, again I don't know what Wal*mart has but I'm gonna go see what kinds are recommended in the guide.

Thank you all soo much for he help, I just hope he will start getting better with the new tank, since he has no real signs of illness I'm afraid if making him happy wont do it I don't know what will. I'm probly overly worried, its just that he's my first fish of any kind, its a whole new world for me.

Lala

[abm]

Hi Lala,

As you can see the consensus is that you are going to be a fantastic betta mom:) I also have a 2.5 minibow and like it a lot; I also have a couple of plain rectangular 2.5 gallon tanks that work just fine and were $10 at petsmart. (The minibows run around $25.) I don't use the filter in my minibow and Moonunit is a happy fishie:)

Just a quick note: When I got one of my bettas, Kelso, he ate and behaved wonderfully for two days. Then he stopped eating and just hovered in his tank. I decided not to panic, continued offering the same food he had been eating, kept his tank in the same location with the same flaring partner, and changed his water on the same schedule (after testing it to be sure nothing was out of the ordinary of course . He refused food for 10 days. Ten very long days for me . But then he jumped at the food the next day and has been happy, healthy and trouble-free every since (6 months and counting )

So don't give up!

[RachelS]

I haven't bothered with filtering my tanks -- and yes, my local Petsmart has the cutest little rectangular 2.5 tanks, but they had no lids of any sort for them. Arrgh. I've never cycled a tank and I've read in multiple places that it's really tricky to do that in a tank that's less than five gallons. Perhaps someday I'll work up the nerve; on another site somebody was extolling the virtues of dwarf puffers, and those are some CUTE fishies! I do weekly water changes and all seems to be fine. Besides, the filters that come with the minibows are HUGE. My heaters go in the built-in slot intended for the filter, and I used masking tape to cover the rest of the slot to keep fishies from jumping out.

I also don't use the lights; I went so far as to take out the metal panels that go behind the bulbs, to expose the air holes at the top. My room gets lots of indirect sunlight so they are not light-deprived, and I don't have live plants.

If you do go for the minibow, as awful as Wal-Mart is, they have them for fifteen dollars less than I paid for my first one at Petco. The Wal-Mart one didn't come with gravel, but I've got flat glass marbles in my tanks. They're prettier, and easier to clean as well.

I don't mean to go on and on but I tend to where my fish are concerned. They're great fun. Yesterday I was at a local Vietnamese restaurant (my reaction to their food is pretty much my fishies' reaction to theirs!) and they have a big lovely goldfish tank. All their fish were hiding! I guess I've been spoiled with my bettas who, when they see me coming, start flirting and begging for food.

[Lala]

Well I got him a 5 gallon Minibow Tuesday and set it up. He seemed to do a little better in the new tank, but still hasnt eaten anything. Then yesterday I noticed fuzz by his front fins, so I Put half a fungus clear tablet in the water. Todays its worse, spread over his body more, Like cotton. He's also lost a lot of color in the last two days and his fins are getting kind stringy looking on the ends. He doesn't have them clamped much though, and I swear I see the beginning of what might be a bubble nest. Since I got the tank the temp has been a steady 80 though i didn't get a heater because the only one they had didn't have a thermostat.

I just don't know what to do especially since I have to go away this weekend. I really don't think he's gonna make it. I wish I knew if it was something I did wrong or if he had it from the store.

Also Its almost like he's burping all the time. He kinda flares then an air bubble comes out of his gills and he goes back to normal then a minute later the same thing. He swims around once in a while but mostly he just stay in one spot. Sometimes it looks like he starting to tip on his side.

Did I get the wrong kind of medication? It looks like a fungus but its gotten worse since I put it in his tank.

Thank You all for your help. I wish I could have done better. I hope he'll still be around when I get home but I just have this feeling he wont be.

[thespiffymonkey]

LaLune,

I'm sorry to hear that your fish isn't doing well, and while I can't really help you with diagnosis I was hoping to offer you some words of comfort.

When your fish comes home with you you have no idea how he was treated before you bought him. At that point it is simply important to do the best you can to makeyour fish happy and healthy. You were concened about your pets welfare and that bodes well for all your pets.

Fungus is very difficult to diagnos and i wish you all the best it treating your special friend.

Good luck

Laura

[Lala]

Kat died friday night.

I'm trying to figure out if I did something wrong or if he had something when I got him. It just doesnt seem fair that I know a girl that has her beta in a small bowl and has had him for a year, without useing any water conditioners or ever medicating for anything. She changes the water about once a week. So I'd think shed have had more problems then I had.

I think I'm going to get another Betta soon, but obviously I need to clean the tank and everything in it. If I hadn't spent so much on the big tank and decorations I probly would wait a while.

I'm going to try and find a fish store, instead of buying from Petsmart or Petco. We went into one pet store but their fish looked worse off then the ones at WalMart.....

Thank you all for the help, hopefully I'll do better buy my second fish.

Lala

[thespiffymonkey]

Lala,

Sorry to hear about your loss,
I know you fought the good fight.

Finding a pet/fish store that takes good care of its bettas is sometimes difficult and can be heartbreaking at times. Just stick to your guns and buy from humane stores! Good luck,

Laura