How do you cure depression in female bettas?

[kritter]

Hi! This is my first visit to this board. I have the tiniest female betta named Jordan. She is only about one inch long. Last week I changed out her bowl decorations because I thought maybe her "hidey hole" was causing some slimy stuff to form on the top of the water. Since then I have been using a water conditioner as well and the water has improved, but Jordan is losing her color. She is not eating well and isn't as active as she used to be. I can't find any other signs of illess. I have moved her bowl next to my male betta's bowl, and that has helped a little, but her color is still fading. Could she be depressed? What can I do to help her feel better?

TIA,

Kritter

[starlight]

Female bettas are pretty spunky creatures, especially the small ones. It may be possible for her to be depressed. Usually there's something causing this. Water quality, the onset of illness, inproper water and temperature can stress her and make her appear depressed.

Can you tell us about your setup. What size tank, water change schedule, water temperature, PH? What do you feed, is she eating well, the age of betta, her color? How do you prepare your water, what do you add to it?

[kritter]

Well, I've had her for about 3 weeks now. I was told at the store where I got her that she's not adult and she's about an inch long. I really don't know how old she is. She's in a half-gallon bowl with a little castle hidey-hole and some colored glass rocks on the bottom. The water temp is the same I've been using for my male betta and my goldfish, just a little tiny bit cooler than lukewarm. I feed her TetraMin tropical granules (mostly because her mouth is so tiny or I would feed her the same food my male eats) and today I tried bloodworms with her. Not sure if she ate any or not. I've been adding Nutrafin Betta Plus bowl conditioner to the water for both bettas. Our house is on a well, so I have been using that water with no other additives except for the bowl conditioner. I haven't tested the PH of the water. I usually change the bettas' water when I change the goldfish bowl, which is every two to three days. I don't empty them out each time, I usually leave them in the bottom of the bowl and use a baster to siphon out the dirty water/excess food, etc. I usually wipe out the inside of the bowl a bit, too, with a clean paper towel. I only take them out if I intend to clean/change the bowl decorations. She was a deep burgundy color for the most part on her body and fins, but the color on her body has faded to like a very light gold or cream color. Her fins look great - they aren't broken or damaged and there's no rot, etc. I haven't seen her eat in a while. I try to follow her path as she's swimming and put the food in her path, but she just goes past it and even ignores it. I was also worried that she might be blind or not able to see well enough to find her food (hope that's not silly )

That's everything I can think of. I really appreciate the help, I don't want to lose her. She's one of those fish that you just can't go home without, you know?!

Kritter

[starlight]

The water temp is the same I've been using for my male betta and my goldfish, just a little tiny bit cooler than lukewarm.

(1) goldfish are cold-water fish
(2) cooler than lukewarm? How many degree's
(3) bettas enjoy fairly warm water.
(4) 78-80 is best, 75 or less and problems develop
(5) what is the room temperature? That'll give you an idea of what the water temperature is?

========================================

Small females have tiny little mouths. I have three tiny females right now. I feed them exactly the same thing my big males eat. I break or cut it into smaller bite-sized pieces. Tetra-granuals? This might not provide the nutrition that she needs. Does your goldfish eat this too?

[kritter]

No, the goldfish (one common and one black moor) eat the tropical fish flakes (and goldfish crumbles for a treat). The room temp (according to our thermostat) has been consistently around 80 degrees - at least during the summer. I also only give the bloodworms as a treat for the male betta, I tried to give them to the female and I don't think she ate any.

I will try replacing her water with a little warmer water - I really haven't measured the temp. And, I will see if I can somehow break up the male's food to give to her (it's Aqua Culture Betta pellet food). Do you have any recommendations for any better food? I hate to admit it, but the only place where I live to buy fish and supplies is WalMart.

Does the room temperature mean that the water is a few degrees cooler than the room temp? I wonder if she is in water that is too cool?!

Thanks,

Kritter

[kritter]

Well, I gave her a water change with a little warmer water (I put my finger in the bowl and the water felt a little too cool) and I broke up some of the pellets I feed my male (put them in a baggie and used a kitchen mallet) and that's what I fed her. So far, so good! I'll let you know how she's doing in the morning.

Kritter

[starlight]

If the room temperature is 80, I'd expect the bowl temperature to be a couple of degrees cooler. 77-78.
That would be fine. Here's a problem. If your overnight room temperature drops to 76, the bowl temp will drop as well. At that point the betta is in 74 degree water. Plus there's quite a bit of variation which bettas don't like.

If you think she's in cooler water than recommended. Don't add warmer water. Place her near a light or use a heating pad set on low and watch-it carefully. When bettas are under the weather, 82 temp is even better.
It raises their metabolism, perks up their appetite and helps them fight illness.

Regarding the food, I'd put a couple of FD bloodworms on a paper plate. Be careful but use a sharp knife or razor and neatly cut it. Don't pulverize, It should still look like bloodworms, just smaller. Place small amount of water on bw's. Let it sit for a minute or two. If the bw's expand too much, cut them again.

Now we want to get her attention and get her ready to eat. Get her attention, play with her and when she swims up to the top, add tiny bit of food. If she eat's it give her another 1 or 2 small pieces.

I hate to admit it, but the only place where I live to buy fish and supplies is WalMart.

It's probably a good idea to pick up a thermometer at Walmart. Some Walmarts have more fish supplies than others. You might make a list of things to treat fish probs. See what food they have that might be good for bettas. Avoid large pellets and NEVER feed flakes.

It's always good to know what meds you can get locally. This may come in handy in the future.

[amanichen]

A large body of water is not apt to changing temperature quickly, and thus it usually takes several hours for the water temperature to get from one extreme to another, which will almost never equalling the extremes set by the air temperature.

However, with a glass bowl, the water temperature will more or less equal the air temperature, simply because of the small volume, and the large amount of surface area available for heat transfer (only the bottom of the bowl could be considered to be insulated.)

I don't think there would be a 3F gap between the air and bowl temperature, especially if the change is happening slowly enough.

You're right in concept though -- when the ambient air keeps fluctuating, the bowl will also, but never to the same degree =) and either way the change isn't good for the fish.

Just thought I'd clarify that.

[kritter]

Well, when I got up this morning, she had died.
There must have been more going on than I thought. I feel terrible!!

Thank you, everyone, for your help and advice. I haven't been keeping fish for very long and I have learned a lot from all of your advice!

Kritter

PS Ironically, a friend of mine stopped over last evening and brought me another betta! A male - my hubby named him "Woody." Unfortunately, he's in one of those "betta in the roots of a plant" situations, so I will move him out of there ASAP!

[Rachel]

Sorry to hear you lost the little girl. Did you have her for a while?

On a happier note, congrats on the new guy Woody. Glad to hear that you plan to take him out of the vase, very good idea!

[kritter]

I had Jordan for almost a month. She was a very sweet little fish. She always swam over to see me whenever I was near the fish bowls.

Woody is making his transition into his new home very well. He's in what was Jordan's bowl. I washed it out with really hot water and did the same with the bowl decorations, then let them air dry for a few hours before reusing them. He's eating well - he ate a lot last night! Today he's been playing and flaring and he ate some bloodworm treats. No worries there! I also changed out my other betta's hidey-hole and he's doing great also. His name is Macy. All my fish are named after characters from one of my favorite shows, "Crossing Jordan." LOL My common goldfish is named Nigel, my black moor is Bug, and my two male bettas are Woody and Macy. LOL It's fun!

About the "fish in the plant" deal - what a mess! I can't imagine anyone wanting to keep a fish that way. It's hard to feed them and I had a terrible time getting Woody out of the vase. Then there's the plant to deal with - ugh! I can't even imagine how trying water changes must be! I'm glad I changed that - and I hope it doesn't hurt my friend's feelings! I was planning on telling her that plants mostly don't tolerate things like water conditioners, which I need to use to keep the fish healthy. I didn't have the heart to tell her that most fish lovers hate that arrangement and consider it to be abuse!

Thanks again for all the support and help!

Kritter

[RachelS]

I don't know -- I'd tell her, very gently, because what if she got a fish for herself and kept it that way? Poor fishy! Some of those fish-in-a-jar arrangements even say not to FEED the fish. I don't know how they sleep at night.