Breeding questions

[Doofusmom]

I just had a few questions for those of you out there that have experience in breeding bettas. I am trying my first spawn right now. I have conditioned the bettas. I have the 10 gallon tank set up with 5 inches of water, a sponge filter, some bushy plants, a indian almond leaf and glass top. I have put the male in and the femal in her clear acrylic tube in the tank. The female has her breeding stripes and her white ovipositor and the male is happy and lfaring and has built a bubblenest. When I let the female out she was chased by the male which I know is normal but them even though he looked excited she just lost interest in him. Whenever he comes around she darts away to the other side of the tank. How long should I wait before I remove her and add my back-up female?

[spiff]

I don't have any experience breeding bettas, but I think that behaviour is normal...she will go under the nest when she's ready to spawn.

Here is a good link with info on breeding bettas:
bettatalk.com/how_bettas_spawn.htm

[citybettas]

Ok, yes it is completely normal for the female to shy away.Only a few of my experienced females go straight to the nest. However, eventually your female should go to the nest and sort of inspect/linger underneath it. Then you are in good shape. Good luck:)

[Emerson]

Are you really, really sure you want to do this? Breeding is not something to be entered into lightly.

For starters, keep in mind that 9 times out of 10 your female will get beaten up -- possibly very seriously. In addition, there is the potential of ending up with several HUNDRED babies if you are successful. You'll need jars; lots of them. What do you plan to do with the offspring? Do you have the space, the TIME and money to care for the fry? Do you have the facilities to raise your own live food? Do you know what to do if something goes wrong?

Breeding can be a very labor-intensive, expensive and difficult project even for those who are experienced. PLEASE make sure you know what you're getting into before you embark.

sef

[Megan]

Doofusmom: I've had pairs in the spawning tank for up to two weeks before I got a spawn out of them. Once I let the female out, she stays out. From experience, I think that re-caging her just makes the process longer and interferes with it, and you run the risk of her being ready, but unable to get to the male, and dropping her eggs in the lantern/tube instead of spawning with the male. As long as there are plenty of hiding spots, the female will be fine. If they don't spawn in week or two, then I would try another female, but give the first pair some time, and try to leave them be, they know what to do... I've never lost a female from spawning wounds, (though I did loose two males from overly aggressive, crazy females) or from an aggressive male... I always give them enough places to hide, and the worst I've ever seen is torn fins and a few missing scales. Have had around thirty or so successful spawns so far.

[Emerson]

Megan,
Obviously, you've been lucky. I stand by my comments; there are many things that can and do go wrong, there is much time and expense involved, and Doofusmom needs to educate herself a bit more before she decides whether or not to undertake such a task.

sef

[Doofusmom]

Sef, I am sure you didn't mean to come off as rude as you did. I have been raising and caring for bettas for years. Everyone has to start with a first spawn. I have read and re-read info about breeding I have bought several books on the subject and I have the set-up and the live food to feed the fry. Don't assume I don't know what I am doing. I thought this was a website to help people. There is no hard and fast rule regarding this question therefore I was just asking for some advice from those that have experienced the same. I have microworms, NOBS, and Liquifry #1 to feed my fry. I also have hundreds of beanie baby cases and a very sturdy shelf that my husband who is a carpenter built for me in my fishroom. I am going to be producing my own line with quality HM and DT traits. I know that I will have hundreds of fry. I also have a friend who happens to own a fishstore and is going to buy my "culls" from me. And I plan to sell my fish in a few years on Aquabid after I get them where I want them to be. Sorry if I seem a little irritated but this is the first time I felt like someone on this message board acted like I wasn't educated enough to raise bettas. I am not one of those people who threw the male and female in a 2 gallon tank and let them go at it without conditioning them straight from the petstore.

[newbettamom]

Doofusmom, I just wanted to thank you for your post as I too have often felt since I joined this board that rather than getting assistance I have been discouraged from owning and raising my bettas. I have been doing a lot of reading and learning about these wonderful fish and everyone has to be a beginner at some point, whether it is just owning bettas or breeding them. I realize some of the questions may seem stupid to more experienced betta owners but it doesn't mean that we are not researching. I know everyone is just concerned about these fish and doesn't want to see them mistreated, but the best way to prevent that is to help educate new owners rather than discourage them. Good luck with your breeding and do keep us posted on how it goes.

[citybettas]

Doofusmom:
It sounds like you are very much ready to breed bettas and seem like a responsible person who is completely prepared for the responsibilty of babies. I hope you do not feel discouraged to come to this board, and I am sure that sef was just thinking about the best interests of the fish. I am sure she had no intentions to offend anybody. Good luck with the spawning and I hope you get a nice spawn

[Emerson]

Doofusmom,
I’m sure you’re a very responsible Betta owner. My intent certainly was not to criticize you or be rude, but I do have a problem when people breed fish or any animal just “because they can,” without considering whether or not they really should.

You don’t mention in your post what you intend to do with the offspring, so I apologize if I make an incorrect assumption that you plan to either sell most of them or give them away. You have seen yourself how many people come to this board without even the most basic knowledge of how to care for their fish, and the fish is the one who ends up suffering needlessly or dying because of it. When you bring more Bettas into the world, the sad reality is that there is no guarantee as to what will happen to them after they leave your care.

Concern for the welfare of Bettas is my primary reason for being here, as I’m sure it is for you and most everyone else here. It is out of that concern that I feel a responsibility to caution would-be breeders to be aware of some of the pitfalls involved.

sef

[Doofusmom]

Well, I didn't think you realized how you came off...and we all love and want the best for our guys and girls...we also all have our own opinions on breeding practices etc. We should all keep to the question at hand and not critisize. I am not sure if you feel people should not breed betta if they want to sell them...most breeders do eventually sell their bettas...I know we can't control what happens to them once we sell them...that is life...all we can do is make sure they go to a good home...My main message is be helpful not critical...I didn;t mention what I was going to do with my bettas because it wasn't relevant to the question at hand...sorry....

Doofusmom

[mickey]

hi ,
you sound very ready to breed bettas to me , i do see sef's thinking as i to have warned people about the possible large spawns and the extra care and ect,
as for the girl runnign away .. i had a pair in the tank for 3 weeks and tho i had seen them "do the thing" the nest was so small at each breeding and had gone away after jsut 2 days that i never thoguth any had hatched (i had seen eggs after each breeding ) so i was going to change the male when i saw a baby swimming around , i had looked everyday for wigglers and hadnt seen even one im guessing that dad rather than putting babies back into the nest put them in the hornwort that i had in the tank near the nest ...well the girl went from the nest to the weeds and hid for several times and the male was very tollerant of her being in the tank...this is not normal jsut that it happened ... anwya im now the "father" of jsut 16 month old babies and they are jsut as happy as can be.... dont get frusterated tho ..it took me almost a year to get this first spawn but its worth all the hassles .... good luck ... Mickey

[starlight]

Doofusmom,
>>>I am trying my first spawn right now. I have conditioned the bettas. I have the 10 gallon tank set up with 5 inches of water, a sponge filter, some bushy plants, a indian almond leaf and glass top. I have put the male in and the femal in her clear acrylic tube in the tank.<<<

When I read your post, I thought about my first spawning attempts two years ago. I recalled all the mistakes that I made; the incorrect spawn setups that I used. I've improved my water quality, conditioning and spawn tank set-ups since then. I thought to myself, this person has done the research and has set up a good tank. There's a good chance for a successful spawn.

Despite what I've read spawning bettas is not always easy. I am friends with several experienced breeders and it's not easy for them either. For one thing the pair must be in top condition-breeding condition. Not just good condition either. Nature makes choices and fish that are not strong enough to pass on their genes do not always breed. If one of the pair has a "slight" illness that doesn't seem a problem, putting the fish together in addition to not spawning will usually produce greater problems then were bargained for.

Feeding live food over time usually produces good results. The Hikari line of frozen food is good as well.

There are tricks you learn along the way....

Last week I had a conditioned pair in a five gallon (1/3 filled with java moss) I released the female from her hurricane lantern. She striped up, swam to her brother. He didn't attack her but she would swim away. She did this for a couple of hours, she loved hanging out with him under the cup. I became worried! My male had showed great patience with the female. If he got frustrated he might take it out on her. She would get scared and everything might change. I've seen this happen before. I placed my back-up female next to the tank in her beanie baby container. All hell broke loose, both females flaring against the glass, male going after the new female and chasing the one in the tank. It was crazy for about five minutes and I took the other female away and left the room.

When I entered the room afterwards the pair was "practice" spawning. After an hour they got it right. It was a small spawn and the fry are hiding in the big clump of java. The male never got aggressive with the female, not even a nip. I think I saw her eat only one egg. Incidentally, if your bettas are conditioned well enough, I've had females heal fin nips overnight. It's amazing. Of course a poorly conditioned female does not fare as well. One partner usually calls the whole thing off. In my case it's usually the male. Then he wants to keep the female (egg-eater) away from his nest. When my male started to chase the female away, she was so fast that she left him in the dust. A well- conditioned male can usually go the necessary distance without food or eating eggs.

Most sources say not to feed the pair in the tank. It's not a good idea since you don't want them thinking about food or you. It's important that they think about each other. After I released the female, I noticed that she seemed hungry, hunting the bottom of the tank, chasing her reflection. I wanted her to concentrate on him. I defrosted a little bit of her fav food. I gave her some and she was thrilled. The male came over to see what was going on. He ate a piece or two just to get it out of his tank. (tank is well-cycled of course). It would be his last food for four days. With her belly full the female stopped searching around and only had eyes for her brother.

My objective is to breed halfmoon royal blue butterflies. It's not always easy and bettas don't ever do what you want.

I spawned this pair because my fav bf male got a case of fin rot. See my post last week. That male is recovering nicely. I'm conditioning him now, next to his future mate. As soon as the small spawn is larger, I'll move them out of the five gallon. That tank and the bio is just perfect. That's just where I want to put Big Star and the Blue Bee next week. I hope he'll be big enough and strong enough to wrap this large female. If there's a problem, the steel blue back-up female I mentioned is in top condition. I would not hesitate to use her.

I hope that some of this helps you. Always remember to follow the rules until you have to break them!

Best of luck spawning bettas.

========================================

Ps. I saw a great spawning tank set up that a pro (the breeder of my steels) was using. It's only good in a ten gallon tank. He had a 6-8" diameter clay pot on its side. It made a great cave for the male to build his bubble nest in. I tried it in my five gallon and it took up too much room and I went back to the styro cup approach. He's been successful for many years using clay pots. I wonder why I never saw anybody try this before? He's been breeding bettas for forty years, I guess he makes up his own rule

[palepinkvase]

I have enjoyed reading about everyone's experiences with breeding. It sounds like quite the exercise in patience and problem-solving. I think I'll leave it up to you guys!
Good Luck Doofusmom

[newbettamom]

I agree ppv! Although the posts have been facinating, I don't think I could handle it but it sure sounds like you guys have what it takes! Good luck!