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Dropsy
Sept 22, 2004 12:35:26 GMT -5
Post by BeansMom on Sept 22, 2004 12:35:26 GMT -5
Okay - so tonight I wil add another dose of the Kanacyn (per the instructions, you dose and wait one day before next dose), so this will be a continuation of the original round. Yah!!! I'm excited about the reduction in swelling, but you're right ABM - eating ANYTHING would make me soooo happy. I will call around now to see if any of my LPS has Spirulina wafers. Thanks to you both...keep your fingers crossed.
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Dropsy
Sept 22, 2004 16:35:55 GMT -5
Post by BeansMom on Sept 22, 2004 16:35:55 GMT -5
Wonderful - my local Tropical Fish Store had Spirulina Flakes by Tetra (no one had wafers), which I just used my lunch hour to pick up. I will try them tonight when I get home. Will also put in first dose of second round of Kanacyn (although it is really a sort-of continuation since there has only been one day since the last dose), I am pleased to say he even still alive, since the pet store owner said goldfish can only go a week without eating. Now, Amanichen, I'm expecting you to let us all know how wrong this guy is! I know you will have the straight info. Oh, any by the way, I have FD Blood Worms for my Betta boy, do you think I could use this as a meat item as you suggested?
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Dropsy
Sept 22, 2004 17:13:36 GMT -5
Post by amanichen on Sept 22, 2004 17:13:36 GMT -5
Not all pet store employees are as bad as the general reputation seems to say (I used to work for a pet store.) But this guy gave you half the story. Whether it was in the interest of simplicity, or in the interest of time, or because he just didn't know, is something we might never know.
I'll get back on topic here.
There isnt ANY fish which should go a week without eating. Fish are used to small, frequent meals, and they'll feel even two days worth of missed meals.
There's a difference between can, and should. Can a goldfish live a week or more without food? Generally, yes. Should a goldfish miss a week's worth of meals? No. Should ANY fish miss a week's worth of food? No.
A week of not eating won't make a fish roll over and die, but the longer it goes on, the more severe the health problems will be. There's really no magical line to cross: two days, one week, a month -- these are all arbitrary lengths of time for something that gradually gets worse. All you can safely say is this: the longer an organism goes without food, the more severe the health problems become. All the collective fish hobby knows is that a week without food is definitely not a good thing, while a day of missed meals might not have any effect at all.
Anybody who cites a length of time probably has no basis for it. The rule is that a fish shouldn't miss a meal, if at all possible.
I can say that if a fish goes a week without eating, then there will be impacts on its health and longevity. The specifics, I don't know, and I'm not sure anybody knows, aside from a general set of physical symptoms that come with malnutrition. There might also be long term effects from it, that are not as easily recognizeable.
Will this episode have an impact on the short term health, long term health and length of the fish's lifespan? Absolutely, yes it will.
Since I'm an engineer, I start to think if there's some exponential function to model what happens when a fish is not fed, but who cares? If a fish isn't being fed regularly then the owner is asking for problems. And that's all there is to it =)
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Dropsy
Sept 22, 2004 17:16:55 GMT -5
Post by amanichen on Sept 22, 2004 17:16:55 GMT -5
Oh, any by the way, I have FD Blood Worms for my Betta boy, do you think I could use this as a meat item as you suggested? Given the situation, I'd say getting your fish to eat anything is progress made. Goldfish stomachs can't really digest raw protein like that, but once he gets the idea that he can eat again, hopefully he'll accept more appropriate foods. I've seen very few fish, regardless of their preferred diets, who can resist spirulina wafers. Bloodworms also seem to be a hot item for a wide variety of species.
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Dropsy
Sept 22, 2004 17:54:30 GMT -5
Post by BeansMom on Sept 22, 2004 17:54:30 GMT -5
I'm so glad for your complete reply - and I'm sorry if I tend to be unkind to Pet Store employees, as there ARE obviously good ones Considering your reply, I feel even more fortunate that Trigger is hanging on. I am hopeful he will try the Spirulina. As a nine year old fish, I'm sure his energy reserves are not what they used to be, but so far he seems to be fighting. We will see what tomorrow brings.
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Dropsy
Sept 22, 2004 20:58:50 GMT -5
Post by amanichen on Sept 22, 2004 20:58:50 GMT -5
For a well kept goldfish, nine years is a middle aged lifespan. For your average goldfish, however, your goldfish is older probably older than most of the ancient biblical figures. The fact that you've gotten him to live 9 years given his previous history of swim bladder problems is remarkable.
Assuming he lives through this, he will probably be weaker, but he still should have a few good years left.
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Lucy
Fry
Sophie my Opaque Female
Posts: 49
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Dropsy
Sept 22, 2004 22:57:41 GMT -5
Post by Lucy on Sept 22, 2004 22:57:41 GMT -5
Wow this post really interested me! Amanichen your posts are just great! I have learned so much from just reading them. Beansmom, good luck and keep us updated!
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Dropsy
Sept 23, 2004 10:30:15 GMT -5
Post by BeansMom on Sept 23, 2004 10:30:15 GMT -5
Trigger is an interesting set of contridictions today. He did not eat the offered Spirulina or the bloodwords, or even the tropical flakes I offered him. I noticed last night that his swelling was down some more, but it appears, for the first time, that some of his scales are lifting. But, that was last night. This morning, his swelling is even more reduced, and he is moving around the tank again; moving from the spot he staked out at the bottom, and actually rising to the top of the tank. Still, though, no eating. But, I almost got the impression (could be wishful thinking) that I might see him willing to eat tonight. I added another dose of Kanacyn and another dose of Epsom Salts last night, and am keeping my fingers crossed.
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Dropsy
Sept 23, 2004 12:03:16 GMT -5
Post by abm on Sept 23, 2004 12:03:16 GMT -5
Sounds like you have reason for hope BeansMom I know how hard it is to wish they would eat because you KNOW that would help, but they're not babies and you can't forcefeed a fish. I can't wait to hear how he does tonight.
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Dropsy
Sept 23, 2004 12:26:34 GMT -5
Post by BeansMom on Sept 23, 2004 12:26:34 GMT -5
ABM - thanks so much for your encouragement. We have had quite a ride with this!
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Lucy
Fry
Sophie my Opaque Female
Posts: 49
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Dropsy
Sept 24, 2004 0:17:31 GMT -5
Post by Lucy on Sept 24, 2004 0:17:31 GMT -5
Congrats on Trigger's progress so far I hope he continues to improve! I have been thinking of him.
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Dropsy
Sept 24, 2004 13:56:28 GMT -5
Post by BeansMom on Sept 24, 2004 13:56:28 GMT -5
Thank you Lucy! Today he is swimming all around the tank, in spite of his still extremely swollen belly. He appears to be happy at the top (I guess since he hasn't been able to get there for such a long time). Unfortunately, he still isn't eating. But, my boyfriend thinks he MUST be eating something or he couldn't possibly be exhibiting enough energy to swim around after 14 days of no food. I hope he's right - but if Trigger is eating, he's doing it on the sly. And here I thought only my Bettas could pull one over on me
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Dropsy
Sept 24, 2004 19:58:06 GMT -5
Post by amanichen on Sept 24, 2004 19:58:06 GMT -5
Keep us posted. Hopefully he'll get over his stubborness and start eating =)
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Dropsy
Sept 27, 2004 10:48:51 GMT -5
Post by BeansMom on Sept 27, 2004 10:48:51 GMT -5
Believe this or not - Trigger is eating!!! Started eating Friday night, and swimming normally. In fact, pretty energetically. His swelling (which had extended to his eyes, which were actually bugging, and making his gills appear recessed) is now confined to his extreme rear. He kind of looks pear shaped. Now my major concern is last night was his final dose of Kanacyn on the second round. Should I put him (and Adolph) through another round?
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Dropsy
Sept 27, 2004 11:57:50 GMT -5
Post by amanichen on Sept 27, 2004 11:57:50 GMT -5
Go for another. There's no way to tell when bacteria are dead, because the symptoms might still linger afterwards, or the fish might have a relapse. At least he's eating now, which is probably the most critical thing at this point. He's going to need lots of nutritious food to help recover and the spirulina will help with that. In fact, you might want to feed it to him on a more regular basis, as it'll help his overall health, and maybe help prevent problems in the future
BTW, what did he eat? Have you been keeping the salt up, or did you being removing it?
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