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Post by twoluvcats on Apr 26, 2005 10:13:04 GMT -5
I frequent a few other fish boards...and I am getting SO SICK of having to correct the misconception that bettas don't need a heater...what?!?!!!  ...and i guess it wouldn't bug me so much if it wasn't supposed BREEDERS that are perpetrating the myth.  |
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Post by amanichen on Apr 26, 2005 10:25:17 GMT -5
I frequent a few other fish boards...and I am getting SO SICK of having to correct the misconception that bettas don't need a heater...what?!?!!! ...and i guess it wouldn't bug me so much if it wasn't supposed BREEDERS that are perpetrating the myth. You don't need a heater, but then again you should live in a tropical environment or keep your house at 80F  I take it these are people in north america who are saying this? |
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Post by twoluvcats on Apr 26, 2005 10:52:48 GMT -5
ya...north america, air conditioned living...so the bettas are in 70 degrees and below.  |
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Post by amanichen on Apr 26, 2005 10:59:58 GMT -5
ya...north america, air conditioned living...so the bettas are in 70 degrees and below. Are these reputable breeders with a long history, or just people who decided to breed bettas one day? |
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Post by briggs on Apr 26, 2005 11:06:11 GMT -5
Meh. I know many people who have bettas for the full life expectency of 2 years or what not who never put a heater in with a betta. If it were a life or death thing then many places would try and sell you a heater with the fish, but since its not, they don't. There's always extremes that people go to with a hobby, no matter what it is, then there is everyone else below that. I don't have a heater, #1 personal reason, #2 I spent money on other fish related things, so im not one who goes to the extreme (of course, here in souther ontario its sprng time and my water temp reached 74 for a few days and its not even summer time yet.. but in the winter i will probably get heaters). But I see other peoples tanks.. and i see decorations in there that spell murder.. or not even hiding places.. or this or that.. but they have a haeter. that sometimes gets me going. Anyhoo, no flaming  (And to those of you who know my message board ways, I tend not to return to these posts as a flame war could start ) |
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Post by twoluvcats on Apr 26, 2005 11:06:27 GMT -5
supposedly one breeder has been doing it for a while, at least 5 years...she's a BettaTalk groupie, and she also doesn't stress the need for a heater on her site.
Another is a 'breeder' that started breeding bettas near by accident, he decided to do it and had his 1st spawn of 300+ survive. He had all of them survive without heating...so he looks at heating a betta tank as a 'luxury'.
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Post by amanichen on Apr 26, 2005 11:11:37 GMT -5
supposedly one breeder has been doing it for a while, at least 5 years...she's a BettaTalk groupie, and she also doesn't stress the need for a heater on her site. Another is a 'breeder' that started breeding bettas near by accident, he decided to do it and had his 1st spawn of 300+ survive. He had all of them survive without heating...so he looks at heating a betta tank as a 'luxury'. I see who you're dealing with now, and why it's frustrating. The most dangerous people are those who are clueless, but think they know. They live in a vacuum away from other people who actually do know stuff Especially the first person...there are some people who give out fish advice that I just can't stand...especially when they have the nerve to charge money for spotty information that I'll give people 10x of for free. As for a betta living two years without a heater...the reason you can get away with this is because captive bred fish are used to slightly different conditions than wild ones. But, people still make a worthless connection between lifespan and overall health. Just because a fish lives that long doesn't mean it's in good health, and doesn't mean it didn't have any problems with diseases in the past. Two years isn't really an outstanding lifespan for a betta anyway. Having a betta that lived for two years in and of itself isn't anything to really cheer about. Anyhoo, no flaming (And to those of you who know my message board ways, I tend not to return to these posts as a flame war could start ) You don't have to worry about a flamewar...not with two mods participating in this thread. |
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Post by twoluvcats on Apr 26, 2005 11:30:59 GMT -5
This is the biggest leap that I CAN'T get people to make. My MIL had a betta in a dreaded vase (plant and all)...she only fed it once a week or so, changed the water once a month, no heater, no light...he lived for near 3 years...but OMG!! I wanted to cry every time I saw it...i think the only reason it lived that long is because it didn't move for almost a year. Yes, it survived, but it wasn't really living...it was more in suspended animation. People just have this "well, its not dead, so it must be ok" mentality that shocks me.
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Post by amanichen on Apr 26, 2005 11:36:07 GMT -5
Yes, it survived, but it wasn't really living...it was more in suspended animation. People just have this "well, its not dead, so it must be ok" mentality that shocks me. Yeah, people don't understand fish in general. Some say "oh it's just a fish" while others think the fish has the same intelligence as some mammals "oh look my betta is so happy he loves me! ". The concept of something that lives in water is farther from general human understanding than say a dog or a cat. To a novice, clear water means clean water, even though it might be filled with ammonia and have a pH of -1. Such simple chemical concepts are of no use to the average human in his quest for survival, and thus we don't quite grasp the idea of regular water changes. We can survive in a number of temperature environments because we regulate our body temperatures...fish can't, but we as a species still can't understand that. This is the same reason that things with fur get sympathy: because humans in general can better relate to the way they live than with fish. That's the fundamental problem, but it doesnt stop stupid people from keeping them anyway. |
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Post by twoluvcats on Apr 26, 2005 12:48:07 GMT -5
i know...furry things garner more sympathy...most of the time...don't even get me started on the deplorable conditions people keep thier dogs here. <sigh>
you'd think, wouldn't you...i wasn't even sold a heater for my 29g TROPICAL fishtank...don't expect the fishtore people to know what's best for your fish...do your own research.
I'm about in the middle on this...I don't need berevement leave to get over the death of a fish...but i do go to great lengths to make sure that they are comfortable and well cared for...and that the care provided matches thier needs.
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Post by amanichen on Apr 26, 2005 12:51:11 GMT -5
I'm about in the middle on this...I don't need berevement leave to get over the death of a fish...but i do go to great lengths to make sure that they are comfortable and well cared for...and that the care provided matches thier needs. I am too =) |
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Post by amanichen on Apr 26, 2005 14:06:23 GMT -5
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Post by teresa on Apr 26, 2005 14:45:13 GMT -5
I find the best way to deal with all the info out there is to remember that most of it is someone's opinion based on his or her own personal experience and I have to use that information as a basis to figure out what works best for my fish and the environment that I provide for them. Yes, there are some constants that should be universally met by all responsible fish lovers, but as an example, many people have told me that Bettas should be kept at a certain temp. Those temps range from 75 - 82 degrees. So after carefully setting heaters and watching how my boys behave, I have discovered that if I keep it at a steady 79 they are active, feed well and rest comfortably at acceptable intervales thoughout the day. Any colder and they are sluggish, any warmer and they are way to active and don't pause to eat with enthusiasium or rest nearly enough to properly 'recharge' Sounds like I know what I am doing right? Well, this is just my opinion and so should be taken as that with the knowledge that it is what works best for me and may not be best for you. With this approach, I find I am less likely to get my boxers in a bunch because someone is trying to sound like they are an expert and is passing off bad advice as fact. That is also the reason I love this site so much, instead of just one person and one opinion, I am able to read many ideas and solutions to find the best one for me |
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Pi
Fry
Posts: 44
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Post by Pi on Apr 27, 2005 0:59:31 GMT -5
To a novice, clear water means clean water, even though it might be filled with ammonia and have a pH of -1. Heh. Isn't ammonia basic? What on earth would you have to dump into an ammonia filled tank to get a pH of -1…(I only ask because I'm sure there is an answer). Nice article by the way. JoAnna (who has her own heater issues at the moment, but that's another story) |
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Post by amanichen on Apr 27, 2005 8:44:55 GMT -5
Heh. Isn't ammonia basic? What on earth would you have to dump into an ammonia filled tank to get a pH of -1…(I only ask because I'm sure there is an answer). Yeah, well, what I described is pretty much an impossible situation =) You'd have to add enough sulfuric acid or hydrochloric acid to get some ridiculous concentration of hydrogen...probably something like: [H+] = 12M. Thanks =) |
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I take it these are people in north america who are saying this?
